Crash at PCA Glen
06-19-2007, 11:42 AM
#1
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Crash at PCA Glen
I heard there was a bad student crash at the Shattenbaum DE at the Glen and the instructor was hurt quite bad. Anyone have any info?
06-19-2007, 11:51 AM
#3
Rennlist Member
Location on track?
06-19-2007, 12:26 PM
#7
Burning Brakes
Originally Posted by TD in DC
Really? The chute felt very grippy during the club race . . .
Trending Topics
06-19-2007, 12:34 PM
#8
Originally Posted by JC in NY
It's just a guess. I think that's the most dangerous turn on the track as far as wrecks go.
06-19-2007, 03:04 PM
#11
Formula One Spin Doctor
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
A crash at another DE , Thank God the instructor is OK, I guess this one will be invited back also 
while i do believe in driver education, teaching proper braking technique, Lines, making a student smoother and better, what you cannot teach them is speed and car control, that is a natural instinct , you have it or you do not , for a student driver , to drive fast enough for this kind of injury is just plain stupid......DE instructors do have ***** of Steel.......
FLame suit on , beam me up scotty
while i do believe in driver education, teaching proper braking technique, Lines, making a student smoother and better, what you cannot teach them is speed and car control, that is a natural instinct , you have it or you do not , for a student driver , to drive fast enough for this kind of injury is just plain stupid......DE instructors do have ***** of Steel.......
FLame suit on , beam me up scotty
06-19-2007, 03:13 PM
#12
Originally Posted by A.Wayne
A crash at another DE , Thank God the instructor is OK, I guess this one will be invited back also
while i do believe in driver education, teaching proper braking technique, Lines, making a student smoother and better, what you cannot teach them is speed and car control, that is a natural instinct , you have it or you do not , for a student driver , to drive fast enough for this kind of injury is just plain stupid......DE instructors do have ***** of Steel.......
FLame suit on , beam me up scotty
while i do believe in driver education, teaching proper braking technique, Lines, making a student smoother and better, what you cannot teach them is speed and car control, that is a natural instinct , you have it or you do not , for a student driver , to drive fast enough for this kind of injury is just plain stupid......DE instructors do have ***** of Steel.......
FLame suit on , beam me up scotty
1. You either have it or you do not.
2. If you do not, there is no point in trying to teach you anything.
3. A wreck is per se evidence that:
(a) you do not have it and thus cannot be taught anything; and/or
(b) your instructor sucked
The point of DEs is not to prepare people for racing. Some people should not drive ever because they really do not "have it." However, there are a lot of people who do not get it at first, but who can pick it up with good instruction and lots of practice. That is the whole point of DEs. So I disagree with you on points one and two.
With respect to point three, every accident is different. Of course accidents should never happen, but we humans are not perfect. When you are trying to LEARN, which is the whole point of DRIVERS EDUCATION, there is always a possibility that you can make a mistake, and that an accident can result.
Nobody wants to have a wreck. Most everyone who has has a wreck beats themselves up over it later. It doesn't mean that they suck, and it doesn't necessarily mean that the instructor made a mistake. It also doesn't necessarily mean that they should never be invited back. If you can't learn car control at a DE, where can you learn it? Don't tell me autocross because, while autocross is excellent, it simply isn't the same type of skill that you need when your car starts to let go at 80 mph or over. Also, it is not practical for everyone to go to private racing schools over and over. We all know, or should know, that seat time and experience are, for most people, the single biggest factor in becoming a better driver. DEs are one of the best fora for getting seat time, and for providing a platform where drivers can experiment and learn new techniques when they are not under the pressure of a competitive environment.
Just my two cents.
06-19-2007, 03:17 PM
#14
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
One interesting point of note is that the car was apprently "well prepared". Maybe JerseyBean can fill us in on it. I am always very concerned when I get assigned a student that shows up for his or her first day at the track in a "race" car with a full suspension, slicks, etc.
06-19-2007, 03:25 PM
#15
Formula One Spin Doctor
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by TD in DC
I completely and utterly disagree. What you are saying is that:
1. You either have it or you do not.
2. If you do not, there is no point in trying to teach you anything.
3. A wreck is per se evidence that:
(a) you do not have it and thus cannot be taught anything; and/or
(b) your instructor sucked
The point of DEs is not to prepare people for racing. Some people should not drive ever because they really do not "have it." However, there are a lot of people who do not get it at first, but who can pick it up with good instruction and lots of practice. That is the whole point of DEs. So I disagree with you on points one and two.
With respect to point three, every accident is different. Of course accidents should never happen, but we humans are not perfect. When you are trying to LEARN, which is the whole point of DRIVERS EDUCATION, there is always a possibility that you can make a mistake, and that an accident can result.
Nobody wants to have a wreck. Most everyone who has has a wreck beats themselves up over it later. It doesn't mean that they suck, and it doesn't necessarily mean that the instructor made a mistake. It also doesn't necessarily mean that they should never be invited back. If you can't learn car control at a DE, where can you learn it? Don't tell me autocross because, while autocross is excellent, it simply isn't the same type of skill that you need when your car starts to let go at 80 mph or over. Also, it is not practical for everyone to go to private racing schools over and over. We all know, or should know, that seat time and experience are, for most people, the single biggest factor in becoming a better driver. DEs are one of the best fora for getting seat time, and for providing a platform where drivers can experiment and learn new techniques when they are not under the pressure of a competitive environment.
Just my two cents.
1. You either have it or you do not.
2. If you do not, there is no point in trying to teach you anything.
3. A wreck is per se evidence that:
(a) you do not have it and thus cannot be taught anything; and/or
(b) your instructor sucked
The point of DEs is not to prepare people for racing. Some people should not drive ever because they really do not "have it." However, there are a lot of people who do not get it at first, but who can pick it up with good instruction and lots of practice. That is the whole point of DEs. So I disagree with you on points one and two.
With respect to point three, every accident is different. Of course accidents should never happen, but we humans are not perfect. When you are trying to LEARN, which is the whole point of DRIVERS EDUCATION, there is always a possibility that you can make a mistake, and that an accident can result.
Nobody wants to have a wreck. Most everyone who has has a wreck beats themselves up over it later. It doesn't mean that they suck, and it doesn't necessarily mean that the instructor made a mistake. It also doesn't necessarily mean that they should never be invited back. If you can't learn car control at a DE, where can you learn it? Don't tell me autocross because, while autocross is excellent, it simply isn't the same type of skill that you need when your car starts to let go at 80 mph or over. Also, it is not practical for everyone to go to private racing schools over and over. We all know, or should know, that seat time and experience are, for most people, the single biggest factor in becoming a better driver. DEs are one of the best fora for getting seat time, and for providing a platform where drivers can experiment and learn new techniques when they are not under the pressure of a competitive environment.
Just my two cents.
I think you need to read my statement again, I SAID YOU CAN TEACH A STUDENT TO BE A BETTER DRIVER , YOU CANNOT TEACH THEM HOW TO BE FAST , SPEED AND CAR CONTROL AT SPEED IS A NATURAL INSTINCT, YOU HAVE IT OR NOT , THISIS WHY THERE ARE MORE WANNA BE'S THAN BE'S
A STUDENT CRASHING UNDER INSTRUCTIONS , ENOUGH FOR INJURY OR DESTRUCTION OF SAID CAR IS A MORON .........STAY HOME RACING IS NOT FOR EVERYONE , OF COURSE ALL YOU FAST RACING GUYS WHO LEARN'T AND STARTED IN DE'S IS GOING TO CHIME IN . OK , BUT IF YOU DID NOT ATTEMPT TO KILL ANYONE WHILE AS A STUDENT AT DE, THEN THIS DOES NOT APPLY TO YOU ..
...AND I'M IN NO WAY STATING THAT DE'S ARE USELESS , JUST THATI FEEL THEY NEED TO APPLY A HIGHER STANDARD FOR THE SAFETY OF THOSE INVOLVED BY SENDING DROVERS LIKE THIS HOME AND AWAY... OF COURSE MECHANICAL PROBLEMS , A RABBIT BITE ON THE FOOT , A DEER FARTED IN THE CORNER ETC.... WILL CHANGE THIS 