Apex Rex

With out knowing the exact details of what happened, I can not really comment on the actual incident. I do know that the driver is a solo level driver and co-drives the car with his dad who is an instructor. This incident was the left-hander going into the laces. The other incident I think people are referring to was in the heel of the boot.

TD in DC

I think you need to read my response again, and I think you need to step back and reevaluate why you feel the need to be rude. I wasn't rude to you, and I didn't flame you. I expressed my opinion.

Again, I disagree with you. You can teach a student to be a better driver AND you can teach a student car control skills. Of course, you really have to practice a lot to hone those skills, and that is the risky part. I always back way off when I have a passenger, and I always have. My lap times at Mid-Ohio with an instructor were 5 to 6 seconds slower than I was when I was by myself. So, I have never crashed with an instructor. But, I still think that you cannot categorically say that every crash means that someone was a moron. Was it foreseeable? Was it a mechanical failure? Was it simply a brain fart by an otherwise great driver?

To the extent that you are saying instructors should not be encouraging their students to be so close to the limit that wrecks are likely, I agree with you. To the extent you are saying that every wreck is evidence that the driver is a moron, sorry, I just flat out disagree, but in a polite way, see.

Veloce Raptor

Dumbest, most ill-informed post of the month.

So far.

A.Wayne

I'm sorry that you would feel i was being rude, that was not my intention , nor did i feel you where being rude and of course my comments are not to the sane drivers who attend DE's without incident , it is just flat out crazy for this kind of thing ot happen at a student level , if he was by himself pushing i could understand and i agree with you about having someone else in the car , you always leave a big margin for error ......

A.Wayne

No i'm sure you had beaten me to this already

Veloce Raptor

Uh-huh.

Did you consieer the possibility that maybe the car suffered a mechanical or tire failure? Or that an animal caused the accident? Your "definitive proclamations" in the utter absence of FACTS make you look extremely foolish.

Jerseybean

It was my old 964, the car was extremely well prepared with SD roll cage, harness, good seats etc, all the good stuff. I'm not sure of the exact details of the crash so I won't comment on the root cause of the accident, I'm just extremely happy that everyone made it out okay!

TD in DC

No worries.

You know, though, I am typically a very conservative driver. In fact, I am too polite and conservative in races still, which costs me time. That said, I wrecked at the Glen (by myself). Why? I made a series of small errors that led to a big consequence.

One of the many contributing factors to my wreck was lack of experience at gathering a car back up at 87 mph when it starts to break loose.

I made a judgment error on how to deal with the situation -- I consciously made the wrong choice during the 1.8 seconds from the time things went south until I hit the wall -- that was directly related to lack of experience.

I paid big time for my mistake (although I was not hurt -- I didn't have a bruise). I learned a lot, and I now know how to deal with that situation . . . and I am a better driver for it.

Was it stupid? You bet.

Was I embarassed? You bet.

Does it mean I am a moron? I may be a moron, but not because I wrecked.

Ed Newman

Thanks JB, I was actually thinking more how it was performance prepared i.e. tires, suspension, power, weight. Could it have been too much car for a new student?

Jerseybean

Car had mild suspension tuning, scargo headers, fabspeed exhaust, 993TT big reds, lighten somewhat - typical stuff you find on a well prepared 964. I dont think it was too much car for him, infact I think it was a great car to learn in.

Alan G.

I heard from a friend that was there about a heavy shunt in the laces. The track was closed for 1 1/2 hours because the ambulance was transporting. Sounds like the one.

Phokaioglaukos

Please let us know as many facts as can be determined.

kurt M

Please read the above quote. Bt this account it looks like this instructor got hurt.

Here is my opinion. Talking about this in this way is bad form and has no good outcome for anyone. Mulling over the real details of the crash and what happened in order for all to learn from it might be a good thing for all.

Doug H

Wasn't there a death at the laces in 2004 at a PCA DE. I believe it was a Boxter and the student had just been signed off.

morefun

They hit the outside rail at T6 downhill left hander after the Carousel. I passed the scene slowly under the black flag. It was an very heavy hit esp. on the right front, the car then rebounded across the track backing into the armco. Not a pretty sight.........

P.S. Somebody should douse the ranters (flamers)