So who is at fault in this track accident?
03-31-2007, 09:59 PM
#46
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Originally Posted by Veloce Raptor
Highly likely.
More likely, however, was that he was droving the S2000.
More likely, however, was that he was droving the S2000.
03-31-2007, 11:11 PM
#47
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Hahahahaha!!
04-01-2007, 08:13 PM
#48
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I definitely blame the S2000 driver, who should have known better than to try passing an out-of-control car. Bone-headed move.
I always tell my students that offies most often occur just after passing, so give them room (if you were passed) or brake early and take the corner easy (if you are the passer). Spins like this will ALWAYS happen, and it's up to the guy following to avoid it, if at all possible.
I always tell my students that offies most often occur just after passing, so give them room (if you were passed) or brake early and take the corner easy (if you are the passer). Spins like this will ALWAYS happen, and it's up to the guy following to avoid it, if at all possible.
04-01-2007, 08:40 PM
#49
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Maybe I need help with my math, but I count 4 "BONEHEADED" moves on the part of the 911, and only 1 for the S2000...
1) Stupid pass,
2) Ultra-early apex,
3) Refusing to put 2 feet in,
4) And last but certainly not least, pulling it hard back onto the track causing the contact.
So the S2000 gives him some space hoping the 911 will EVENTUALLY make a good decision... obviously the 911 never does... and because the S2000 doesn't completely lift, it's completely his fault???
I bet the 911 Bonehead was NOT blaming the S2000 in the paddock...
1) Stupid pass,
2) Ultra-early apex,
3) Refusing to put 2 feet in,
4) And last but certainly not least, pulling it hard back onto the track causing the contact.
So the S2000 gives him some space hoping the 911 will EVENTUALLY make a good decision... obviously the 911 never does... and because the S2000 doesn't completely lift, it's completely his fault???
I bet the 911 Bonehead was NOT blaming the S2000 in the paddock...
04-01-2007, 08:55 PM
#50
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Originally Posted by Astroman
Maybe I need help with my math, but I count 4 "BONEHEADED" moves on the part of the 911, and only 1 for the S2000...
1) Stupid pass,
2) Ultra-early apex,
3) Refusing to put 2 feet in,
4) And last but certainly not least, pulling it hard back onto the track causing the contact.
So the S2000 gives him some space hoping the 911 will EVENTUALLY make a good decision... obviously the 911 never does... and because the S2000 doesn't completely lift, it's completely his fault???
I bet the 911 Bonehead was NOT blaming the S2000 in the paddock...
1) Stupid pass,
2) Ultra-early apex,
3) Refusing to put 2 feet in,
4) And last but certainly not least, pulling it hard back onto the track causing the contact.
So the S2000 gives him some space hoping the 911 will EVENTUALLY make a good decision... obviously the 911 never does... and because the S2000 doesn't completely lift, it's completely his fault???
I bet the 911 Bonehead was NOT blaming the S2000 in the paddock...
04-01-2007, 09:04 PM
#52
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Originally Posted by Astroman
Maybe I need help with my math, but I count 4 "BONEHEADED" moves on the part of the 911, and only 1 for the S2000...
1) Stupid pass,
2) Ultra-early apex,
3) Refusing to put 2 feet in,
4) And last but certainly not least, pulling it hard back onto the track causing the contact.
So the S2000 gives him some space hoping the 911 will EVENTUALLY make a good decision... obviously the 911 never does... and because the S2000 doesn't completely lift, it's completely his fault???
I bet the 911 Bonehead was NOT blaming the S2000 in the paddock...
1) Stupid pass,
2) Ultra-early apex,
3) Refusing to put 2 feet in,
4) And last but certainly not least, pulling it hard back onto the track causing the contact.
So the S2000 gives him some space hoping the 911 will EVENTUALLY make a good decision... obviously the 911 never does... and because the S2000 doesn't completely lift, it's completely his fault???
I bet the 911 Bonehead was NOT blaming the S2000 in the paddock...
04-01-2007, 09:05 PM
#53
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I agree 100% with Bull.
04-01-2007, 09:06 PM
#54
Nordschleife Master
Originally Posted by Astroman
... and because the S2000 doesn't completely lift, it's completely his fault???
Last edited by LVDell; 04-01-2007 at 09:55 PM.
04-01-2007, 09:20 PM
#55
Rennlist Member
I cannot fathom why anyone could possibly consider the 911 at fault. Let's all remember...again...that this is DE, even though it was a European DE and the passenger was a ride-along, not an instructor.
If the 911 had spun out, rolled over, hit the wall, etc., then the incident would have been totally the 911's fault. The minute the S2000 decided to accellerate at the apex and tried to get back around the 911, it became his total responsibility for what happened next.
The correct procedure would have been to show the international sign of the right fist up in the air (in the car) to indicate to any driver behind him that there was an incident or something happening on the track, and he needed to slow down and/or take evasive action.
This guy stupidly chose to accellerate, instead of waiting for the car to stop moving and driving around safely. Even if this were racing, the S2000 would still have been at fault, because anyone should know that in such circumstances, one aims for where the other car is rather than trying to dodge around it. The theory is that if you aim for where the other car is, it will no longer be there when you arrive at that point.
That aside, this is DE, and there was abosolutely no reason or excuse for there being any metal to metal in this situation.
If the 911 had spun out, rolled over, hit the wall, etc., then the incident would have been totally the 911's fault. The minute the S2000 decided to accellerate at the apex and tried to get back around the 911, it became his total responsibility for what happened next.
The correct procedure would have been to show the international sign of the right fist up in the air (in the car) to indicate to any driver behind him that there was an incident or something happening on the track, and he needed to slow down and/or take evasive action.
This guy stupidly chose to accellerate, instead of waiting for the car to stop moving and driving around safely. Even if this were racing, the S2000 would still have been at fault, because anyone should know that in such circumstances, one aims for where the other car is rather than trying to dodge around it. The theory is that if you aim for where the other car is, it will no longer be there when you arrive at that point.
That aside, this is DE, and there was abosolutely no reason or excuse for there being any metal to metal in this situation.
04-01-2007, 09:49 PM
#56
Rennlist Member
Even though I feel the 911 is more at fault, I'd agree with a 13 for both boneheads... In a hypothetical club race, is anyone suggesting a 13 ONLY for the S2000??
04-01-2007, 10:29 PM
#58
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Astroman, this is such a good video for students to see. I will forward it to our CI for classroom. Totally avoidable stupid stupid stupid stupid................ If I was shotgun, I would have hopped out before the apex. So obvious what was going to happen. Where the FFFFF did he think the 911 was going???? Pit IN??????
04-01-2007, 10:42 PM
#59
RL Community Team
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You guys who blame the 911 sound like you've never spun a car on a race track or taken a corner too fast, etc. Does every one who spins in a DE get a 13/13 penalty? Honest question - I race with the POC so I don't know how PCA DE's work... Sliding cars, spinning cars, these things happen all the time but in this case it was so avoidable I am surprised anyone would blame the 911, ESPECIALLY in a DE environment when they're not even racing!
04-01-2007, 10:48 PM
#60
Rennlist Member
Garret, no at a DE. Most clubs impose a 2 spin and your either done for the day or weekend at DE's. PCA club race a spin is not an incident. Contact with damage to your car or another car is a 13. If you are found completely free of fault ie, run into. You will not be on probation.