weston98

Not to beat a dead horse but here's what I asked Debbie:

"Is the regional underwriter able to provide a signed letter on company letterhead stating that regardless of what is mentioned in the policy form Fireman's Fund will honor claims made for physical damage and liability occurring on a race track while participating in organized PCA Driver Education events in all states.

Anything less would not be acceptable to me since the exclusion in the policy form is so broad.

Please understand my concern."

Her response:

"Absolutely! He is in the process as we speak of preparing a letter. As soon as I received it, I'll forward it to you ASAP."

So the saga continues.

FWIW since I will be on track next weekend I sent in an application to Chris Maume at Snellings Walters for "On-Track Accident Physical Damage"

Phokaioglaukos

You can find the form of policy, underwritten by Great Lakes, HERE. I have highlighted the bits that I think are most important to read, and that distinguish this policy from street policies. It looks pretty good to me.

RickBetterley

This is certainly a good alternative; I was disappointed that they are not yet allowing customers in MA to buy it (what's up with MA? Did we do soemthing wrong in a prior life? Even our ex-Governor makes jokes about us).

weston98

Thanks Chris. I was confirmed by Snellings Walters effective today. BTW there are some extra taxes they add on due to the fact that these are considered surplus lines or something like that. Now I hope I never need it.

quick

I have a call into Snellings Waters and I will let you know how it goes. The policy text looks good. I was covered by the New Jersey cpy, Am. Collectors, previously and have been looking for a replacement. This looks like the ticket.

mhm993

any update to the "Debbie is getting an underwriter's letter"?

RickBetterley

As of this afternoon Erica says she is awaiting the letter from the insurer; I think it is real.
I also like the Snellings approach but the won't offer it in MA (insert MA joke here).

JimmiLew

I have been waiting for the Ellington letter for two weeks. Erika no longer answers my emails or calls. I was out of time and went for the Laurel race/de policy. It has clear lanuage about coverage for DE, Open Track, test & tune days, and Club Racing. Yes, it costs more, but the language is clear and I will sleep well tonight.

Jerseybean

anyone sign up with ellington yet? two weeks and no letter seems like bs to me. Im sure legal took one look at the request for a letter and said NO.

Anyone know why Snellings dont offer insruance only cars only with insurance. I'd love to insure my cup car with them - they have a good track record with the rolex bunch.

weston98

No letter from Debbie. I'm not surprised.

RonCT

I called and left a VM, emailed, and faxed a letter asking for a quote because I wanted coverage... No response.

BC

From my recent research and phone calls, these are my findings, as an insurance agent:

1) The policies that are real auto policies for personal use are written to exclude ANY DE-like activity or more serious "race track related activities" in the states that allow this exclusion, including mine, CA.
2) If you wish to insure with a personal lines carrier with this exclusion and have a claim, it may be paid, but likely will be paid out of the E&O of your agent - which means you have to sue them. Not pretty.
3) There are obviously non-personal lines policies which will cover you with a NON-admitted, non-domiciled company for JUST property, and in that, JUST YOUR property. There is no liability for damage to others.
4) These polices are either EXTREMELY expensive, or very cheap. And I have not discovered the reason forthis incongruity.
5) My Agency Mission Statement is to "Asset Protection for the California Homeowner and Business Owner" - I see no way to do this with the available policies, other then to immediatley protect the property the insured would driver for the 1 or 2 days they do the event for.

After two weeks of trying to get information out of Great Lakes, who is the actual underwriter of the current snellings policy offering, I have not received much of any real interest in expanding their market. I usually assume that from the 2-3 unreturned phone calls to various departments asking about selling thier product. When insurance companies don't call back, that means they don't very much want to sell it.

Notwithstanding that above, I continue to attempt the impossible - Eeking out some form of logical and reasonable information and coverage option plan from an insurance company that would serve the need of a niche market that is SCREAMING for an affordable and robust DE policy.

I still have this question: What about Liability? The track covers their ***, The PCA thiers. Who is covering yours in the event someone comes after you for an on-track Bodily injury claim?

weston98

BrendanC,

I remember reading some information posted here by a lawyer relating to the subject of on-track liability in the event of harm to other participants. I believe his logic went something like this: so long as the type of accident causing the injury is one that would fall within the realm of what could normally happen on a race track then the waivers should hold. He went on to say that for example if you purposely hit someone with the intent to hurt them then you may be liable, but if it is just a track incident then the waivers should hold. My recollection may be a little weak so if someone out there can clarify, please do. I also know that anyone can sue anyone in our wonderful country and it can cost money to defend yourself.

Thanks..

BC

What you have stated makes sense. And racers, as a group, are many times people who will not randomly bring suit. But when more serious issues are involved, or FAMILY, I think the situation changes.

weston98

"What you have stated makes sense. And racers, as a group, are many times people who will not randomly bring suit. But when more serious issues are involved, or FAMILY, I think the situation changes."

I think you're right. FWIW a while back when I was checking into all of this my agent told me that my umbrella liability coverage would probably not protect on a race track. So I inquired further and since I am an instructor and receive discounted track time (compensation) it turns it into a business. I found out that I could buy professional liability insurance but the rate was over $3,000/yr. for $1 million of coverage. I passed.