LVDell

Thanks Brenden, I really appreciate your candor and layman wording for us non-insurance guys

Please do keep us posted as well. Totally understand what you say about the wording changing in the future. At that point I would just drop them and go back to USAA. However, I will still be a bit chapped that I left my loyalty of my previous company to sign up with a company that should I ever have to use them for a DE incident and then not be covered.

Greg Smith

Anybody ask about TX?

Mark Dreyer

My State Farm agent hem hawed around a bit and didn't guarantee it, but basically told me if push comes to shove, I'd be covered for any track accident that didn't involve timed competition.

BC

What FF is saying is that when you aren't paid, you are under personal use, and its covered.

multi21

Brendon,

Given your in the industry and we're not, if you could look over the fine print and give us your perspective on this, it would help us out A LOT! I think it sounds too good to be true, but my other concern is that liability, medical is not covered, thus to added cost of those desired covered items brings the price up.

In turn, if someone was to drop their primary coverage with their current carrier, and go over to Fireman's Fund, AND the vehicle is used on the street as well, that liability or lack thereof could be the subject of major pain if something were to happen.

Furthermore, if someone has an umbrella policy with their auto/home carrier, traditionally, they require higher limits of liability to their auto coverage, say 500k/500k minimum. If one was to take their street/track car off their primary carrier, swithch to FF and something was to happen on the street, would that umbrella policy be in effect, because of the different minimum coverage issues?

multi21

BTW,

I'm in Cali as well, is that one of the 22 states they're covering at this time?

CosmosM3.2

I felt compelled to write a brief post to this thread. I have read the thread over the last couple of days and I have become concerned with the discussion at this point. I would strongly advise everyone to consider asking a lot of questions about the Farmer's program.

I am in no way editorializing or speaking negatively about the policies bound by this Farmer's agent. As someone who also reps. for Farmer's I can not speak poorly about them, but I can advise you as to some additional questions to ask. Again, please understand that this is not an advertisement nor is it to diminish the character or quality of someone else's business.

Some very serious points to consider have not yet been raised in this thread so I thought I would post them so you could ask the Farmer's agent and be informed.

The state of North Carolina, along with 3 others, are required by their state's insurance commissioner to not include the race surface exclusion that is now so common in personal lines auto policies. What Farmer's is attempting to do is to sell this street policy as a specialty lines DE and Race policy, it is not. This should raise several concerns for those hoping that this is truly for real.

Main concern is claims. If my policy is terminated will I be cancelled for my claims and if so how will I get insurance coverage in the future...and if I can what will it cost? Insurance companies track claims, accidents, tickets, etc. through several databases and if you are dropped by one carrier the next one you call will know. How will it be underwritten when you have been dropped for accidents incurred on a racetrack? Will coverage be affordable after this? That has been the most popular question right after "Will I be covered" and "Will I get canceled".

Other concerns:

1. This is a street policy...what about accidents showing up on a carfax? How will you keep that from happening? 2. If this is a street policy how do I file an accident report? If so, how? If not, why? If I do does it go on my license record? 3. Liability coverage? Street policies have them and are you telling me that a policy like this will cover my liability in a race with a $100 deductible? Think Carrera GT at Fontana. That one still isn't settled.

I can tell you my experiences and please take it for what it's worth (free advice). Please be educated consumers and understand what you are buying and who you are buying from.

Chris Maume

CosmosM3.2

One fact I thought I'd mention...

Farmer's is a subsidiary of the Allianz Group. I compete, or have competed against Allianz in the pro ranks as they specifically only insure Porsche cars. Not even Allianz could come close to these premiums and deductibles, even for partime street cars, DE's or club race cars.

Just something to think about.

38D

Here's some basic math. PCA club racing published an accident rate of ~4% for 2005. In 2006, there were 27 events. If we assume 130 people per event, that's 3500 entrants give or take. 4% of 3500 is 140 incidents. Now, some of these incidents are very minor, and some are $60k+ major f-ups (the one at Daytona comes to mind). So let's say the average is $10k per incident (might even be low). Anyway, that's $1.4M in claims. In order to hit a 70% loss ratio (which is probably too low for a high risk product like this), they's need to collect $2M in premiums, or $570 per car per event. And that assumes every single driver signed up.

If it sounds too good to be true...

BC

In my world, I have not done what I am in this business for unless I have encapsulated the entire household in a package of Home/Auto/Umbrella/(Start Financial Products here)


Fireman's Fund is a premier Home Insurance Carrier in many of these 22 states if not more. Thats why I mentioned the "Green Rebuild" program that Fireman's Fund is advertising. They are a major player in the game, and they are professionals in my experience. Do I have a huge book of business with them? No. their prices preclude some of my customers going for them even though I preach on "Depth of Coverage" as well as level of coverage, with Price coming in at a distant third in importance.

But again, this is a company that offers its products through the "independent agent" force, and it is again a normal auto product. This turn of events is not a change in policy type or wording. It is a change or possible uncovering of existing interpretation of the policy wording as it pertains to "Personal Auto Use".

So, with that in mind, to answer your questions, Medical payments, if chosen, would have to be honored. You would not need to add these.

To you point about umbrellas, yes, most preferred carriers would require that you have

1) All of your autos under them to bind their umbrella
2) Required auto and home underlying limits.
3) Auto AND Home to get the umbrella as well.


I hope I have explained this properly.

Greg Smith

That assumes no DE drivers though, and they also insure normal(street) drivers too. The people on track are by far the minority.

BC

FF writes in CA, but the wording in the policy can be different - and the resident of that state will get that wording.

BC

This thread is regarding Fireman's Fund. Specifically thier Prestige program.

BC

While I understand your direction here, All this agency in NC is trying to do is create some awareness of what they perceive may be a boon for people interested in protecting themselves when they bring their street cars to these events.

BC

Insuring a car should be about 1400 every year with 500/500/500, and a 500 dollar deductible. 3500 cars is 4,900,000 in premiums. Even at 2M in claims, thats a 40% loss ratio. Too high for me personally, but bonus will still be paid, and companies would still be happy. Insurance companies make money at about 65% loss ratio. Allstate is published recently at 103% or so IIRC. Very bad.

I need to reiterate here for the 5th time that this is not being sold as, nor is it in fact a different policy TYPE. It is, at least from current info, in NC, being perceived as possibly one of those few auto companies who have NOT written out any form of Event.