M758

while heel & toe is not an entry level technique I do think that it is very valuable in DE. Heck it can be really handy on the street to. Personally I think heel & Toe (once learned) is just the "right" way to brake and downshift in most any situation.

Larry Herman

Can you explain that? What do you do, just let the clutch out slowly until the drivetrain forces the engine speed to pick up?

Mike Murphy

I've never been on a track, but I am practicing heel/toe on the street with my 88 Carrera. I cannot roll my ankle because my ankle hits the firewall/tunnel on the right. I was thinking about changing the pedal location, because, as you all say, I find it difficult to do it unless braking very hard on the street.

Needless to say, I only practice this on the street when no one is near or behind me.

993inNC

I match rev (right foot blip) before braking (right foot). I'm pretty in tune with the mph speed/rev for each gear and match as I throttle decel and brake. Usually I try to keep that point at the 4K point so I'm in the torque band if and when I need to put the power down. I've had more people ride with me that tell me they can't tell what it is I am doing it so smooth. Heel/toe IMO offers to many opportunities to screw up

cooleyjb

Heel toe is just having your toe on the brake and heel on the acceleator or vice versa. In some formula cars I've been in it is left side of foot on brake and right side of foot on accelerator. Basically it is having one foot on two pedals.

What JustinL describes as Heel-toe is just rev-matching.

For example you can double clutch without heel-toeing. However in order to get all the shifitng and braking done in the shortest amount of time people are use the heel toe method.

More often than not people think they are double clutching when all they are doing is rev-matching with a heel toe maneuver.

Z-man

993inNC: I'm with Larry on this -- Heel and toe are an integral part of track drivnig - without it, the rythm through a corner can be disrupted.

When I first started learning heel/toe, I struggled - even considered abandoning the technique in favor of some type of new method that I would come up with. Now that I'm more proficient with it - I can see no other way to enter a corner other than heel/toe. Without it, you either have to slow way down, or be very rough on the tranny and clutch. And that roughness can translate into a very upset car in terms of balance - not what you want to have in your hands upon entering a corner. Another option if you don't like heel/toe: drive a tiptronic.

Side note: Double clutching (actually, I've been told the correct term is double de-clutching) was/is more common on cars equipped with straight cut gears. Today's modern syncromesh transmissions don't really need the double-declutch - it doesn't really help save the tranny or make things smoother.

-Z

993inNC

Next time we're at VIR together, I'd be happy to let you experience my style of driving It really is very smooth. You won't find anyone as easy on his equipment as me. I comes from years of racing and driving like I do normally. I don't like replacing parts, so I drive hard but take it easy doing so.

Z-man

Interesting technique - but won't the revs drop as soon as you depress the clutch? That is the critical moment you want to blip the throttle - not before you start braking.

-Z

993inNC

sequence (similar to heel toe): come off WOT, brake and depress clutch same time. Speed is brought down (via brakes) to the point necessary to execute the corner, match rev is brought up to let out cluch and throttle through the corner (appropriate gear and speed obviously pre determined). In answer to Larry's question "do you let out the clutch until the revs come up" is partially yes,, but again, the speed of the car is in the correct range to let the clutch out and throttle on......its an aquired touch

Alan Herod

In order to be using the technique as Chris describes, you must first be going the speed that your next gear will accomodate. At VIR there are two places where you will find yourself in top gear and must slow down for turn 1 or the roller coaster. This means going down several gears. Assume that you shift directly into the gear that you will use for the turn. Generally heel-toe allows you to brake while you are shifting without coasting, or dumping or slipping the clutch at the end of the braking zone. If you want to down shift without heel-toe you must incur some coasting penalties. Without heel-toe the safest corner entry technique would be -Brake-Coast (and shift) and turn. We do not promote beyond Blue (second group) without some proficiency at the technique.

Edited because I see we are posting at the same time. I admit that you can be smooth without heel-toe, you just have to accept coasting. What you have described is what I call slipping the clutch down. Even slipping the clutch down or dumping (not recommended) you will incur coasting penalties. We do not recommend putting the clutch in until you are ready to engage the next gear. Do not put the clutch in at the start of the braking zone. The consequences are very severe for inadvertently letting the clutch out prematurely. If you are going to shift down sequentially (through each gear), you will incur a coasting penalty on each shift.

Double Clutching - I find this tool very useful, especially when dealing with a balky 915 transmission. Apparently it does save quite a bit of wear on internal parts; but, I am not sure how, other then matching internal speeds and maybe saving a little wear on the synchros. The technique of rev matching with the transmission in neutral translates into being able to shift without the clutch when in extremis.

993inNC

Alan, I just find heel/toe through the gears is alot of extra effort and just allows for to many miss-ques. I go right to the gear I need (even at 1 and roller coaster at VIR ). Match the speed to the gear and get right back on the throttle.....works like a champ almost every time. In my front wheel drive racecars, it used to catch me sometimes by likking the motor temporarily if the sequence was backwards, but a pop of the clutch usually saved things just in time

Getting back to your coasting penalty comment. If done right, I usually have no coasting, its all a very quick and fluid dance of the pedals and I'm back on the throttle, like I said, most can't tell what I'm doing when its done right.

Larry Herman

Chris, I am trying to understand what you are doing. You are depressing the clutch as you get on the brakes. Are you doing all of your braking with the clutch depressed, and then release it as you go for the gas when you enter the turn?

Alan Herod

This clutch slipping technique can be done at the end of the braking zone and it is not necessary to push in the clutch until you are ready to shift gears. I admit to having observed and practiced this technique. With a front wheel drive car, it probably helps to rotate the car on corner entry. I admit that if it is done correctly it can be very smooth, but the penalty if not done correctly is similar to engaging the emergency brake lightly.

I have four trips to VIR planned for next year -- maybe I will see you there.

993inNC

Short answer Larry ......yes, but its not a "pop" of the clutch, its a brake first (majority of braking done first), depress clutch and down shift once speed is appropriate. Let off brake and back to gas just as clutch is let up so that the revs are matched to the speed. Again its a little hard to explain. I feel it more than pay attention to the exact details, but it works really well when done right. When its right, the revs, braking speed and exit speed are all the same and its a very even transition.

TD in DC

Isn't slipping the clutch very hard on the clutch? I mean, that is what you are talking about . . . letting the clutch out slowly so that the revs come up smoothly, isn't it?

Done correctly, heel/toeing allows you to depress and release the clutch pedal very quickly without slipping the clutch at all . . .

Also, is it possible to generate the same amount of neg. Gs (braking force) if the clutch pedal is depressed for the entire braking zone?

Honest questions here . . .