Instructing - Heel and Toe
12-13-2006, 12:26 AM
#62
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by Larry Herman
Sometimes it's better to see it for yourself. Click here for a couple of turns from my Daytona race. Turn up the volume! 
Going into turn one is a huge decreasing radius turn requiring a lot of braking. I downshift from 5th to 3rd, and then to 2nd before getting back on the power. Notice that the downshifts are smooth, and the transition from brakes to full throttle is seamless. Finally, the powertrain is always engaged, except for the briefest periods during the downshift.
Going into turn one is a huge decreasing radius turn requiring a lot of braking. I downshift from 5th to 3rd, and then to 2nd before getting back on the power. Notice that the downshifts are smooth, and the transition from brakes to full throttle is seamless. Finally, the powertrain is always engaged, except for the briefest periods during the downshift.
Thanks for the video. I need to find one with feet and tach in the image, but that's a good start. I reviewed it next to one of my own videos..I have some work to do.
12-13-2006, 02:40 AM
#64
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Originally Posted by Techno Duck
I never had much luck rolling my ankle and hitting the gas with my heel. I was watching a Tiff Needell video where he was driving a 996 Turbo (or maybe it was a GT3) and they cut to a shot of his feet as he heel toe'ed.. he used the left portion of his toes on the edge of the brake pedal with the right side of his toes on the gas pedal. This method works especially well with cars that have a floor mounted accelerator pedal i think. I also use this method on my friends Japanese cars that have the pedal hanging from under the dash (like most non-euro cars). Rolling my ankle has never felt natural to me.
).
12-13-2006, 08:45 AM
#65
Race Car
ditto, I use the ball of my foot on the brake and heel on the gas... middle to top of the gas peddle.. depending on how high the brake peddle is.
(guess, I'm only heel and toeing, & not double clutching after all)
ps: I like the idea of matching revs while driving (no brakes, just clutch in and BLIP! then clutch out, not using the shifter.) to get the feel of how to to match rev's.
a loud exaust helps too.
(guess, I'm only heel and toeing, & not double clutching after all)
ps: I like the idea of matching revs while driving (no brakes, just clutch in and BLIP! then clutch out, not using the shifter.) to get the feel of how to to match rev's.
a loud exaust helps too.
Last edited by mrbill_fl; 12-13-2006 at 08:18 PM.
12-13-2006, 10:20 AM
#66
I start students with the engine OFF. They can practice over and over this way, including shifting. Once they get the feel, then turn the car on.
I agree big shoes don't work. Some tennis shoes are narrow. I have a pair I use for daily driving that work almost as well as my driving shoes.
I agree big shoes don't work. Some tennis shoes are narrow. I have a pair I use for daily driving that work almost as well as my driving shoes.
12-13-2006, 11:48 AM
#67
Rennlist Member
aLSO MATCH REVING makes your a much smoother, faster, and stressing on the drivetrain driver when you have to down shift. Same concept but with out the brakeing part
12-13-2006, 12:59 PM
#68
Rennlist Member
In addition to learning the techique and practicing it, I think there is some physical conditioning you go through on the way to getting good at it.
While it's easier to heel and toe at N/10s on the track than on the street, I figured I'd never get enough hours on the track to be really good at it so just committed 10 yrs back to doing it regularly in everyday driving. I use the left half/right half of the foot technique. For me it required 9 mos or so to train/condition the right leg to feel natural doing it. Especially on the street where the brake pedal hasn't traveled so far, my ankle really needs a good stretch to reach over for the throttle.
While it's easier to heel and toe at N/10s on the track than on the street, I figured I'd never get enough hours on the track to be really good at it so just committed 10 yrs back to doing it regularly in everyday driving. I use the left half/right half of the foot technique. For me it required 9 mos or so to train/condition the right leg to feel natural doing it. Especially on the street where the brake pedal hasn't traveled so far, my ankle really needs a good stretch to reach over for the throttle.
12-13-2006, 01:05 PM
#69
Rennlist Member
I've seen people buy computer sims with seemingly realistic pedal setups. Would help in practicing heel/toe?
12-13-2006, 04:31 PM
#70
Race Car
Originally Posted by Larry Herman
The basic point of any of this is to have the drivetrain re-engaged before you get off of the brakes. That way the power is there immediately, not a second later. It really does make a big difference at 10/10ths.
12-13-2006, 04:54 PM
#71
Originally Posted by TD in DC
Are you 100% certain on that? I'm not talking about mashing down the throttle and holding it there for any length of time while in neutral or with the clutch medal in. I am talking about a blip -- on and off the throttle -- on a car with a normal flywheel (only because I have never driven a car with a light flywheel). For those types of blips, if you have a rev limiter, I don't think (I appreciate that I could be wrong on this) you can damage your engine by a very strong blip. I have been told this by a number of instructors, both amateur and pro.
In any event, I doubt you could even make it to redline because most people tend to underblip so they aren't even blipping that strongly when they think they are really pounding the pedal.
In any event, I doubt you could even make it to redline because most people tend to underblip so they aren't even blipping that strongly when they think they are really pounding the pedal.
12-13-2006, 06:22 PM
#72
Rennlist Member
well may as well ask this....4th gear to 2nd or 4-3-2??
At Sebring coming into the hairpin I go 4 to 2 ( of course perfectly heel toe shifting LOL) but on the long back straight I go 5 to 4 to 3 cause much larger radius turn.
Is one more correct or incorrect for any reason???
As for the LWFW, I have one and have actually stalled the car with an aggressive "over blip" cause the revs dropped so fast (does that make sense?)
At Sebring coming into the hairpin I go 4 to 2 ( of course perfectly heel toe shifting LOL) but on the long back straight I go 5 to 4 to 3 cause much larger radius turn.
Is one more correct or incorrect for any reason???
As for the LWFW, I have one and have actually stalled the car with an aggressive "over blip" cause the revs dropped so fast (does that make sense?)
12-13-2006, 06:32 PM
#73
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by tkerrmd
well may as well ask this....4th gear to 2nd or 4-3-2??
12-13-2006, 06:35 PM
#74
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Originally Posted by tkerrmd
As for the LWFW, I have one and have actually stalled the car with an aggressive "over blip" cause the revs dropped so fast (does that make sense?)
__________________
Larry Herman
2016 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
2018 Tesla Model 3 - Electricity can be fun!
Retired Club Racer & National PCA Instructor
Past Flames:
1994 RS America Club Racer
2004 GT3 Track Car
1984 911 Carrera Club Racer
1974 914/4 2.0 Track Car
CLICK HERE to see some of my ancient racing videos.
Larry Herman
2016 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
2018 Tesla Model 3 - Electricity can be fun!
Retired Club Racer & National PCA Instructor
Past Flames:
1994 RS America Club Racer
2004 GT3 Track Car
1984 911 Carrera Club Racer
1974 914/4 2.0 Track Car
CLICK HERE to see some of my ancient racing videos.
12-13-2006, 06:43 PM
#75
Spell Checker
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Originally Posted by tkerrmd
well may as well ask this....4th gear to 2nd or 4-3-2??
At Sebring coming into the hairpin I go 4 to 2 ( of course perfectly heel toe shifting LOL) but on the long back straight I go 5 to 4 to 3 cause much larger radius turn.
Is one more correct or incorrect for any reason???
As for the LWFW, I have one and have actually stalled the car with an aggressive "over blip" cause the revs dropped so fast (does that make sense?)
At Sebring coming into the hairpin I go 4 to 2 ( of course perfectly heel toe shifting LOL) but on the long back straight I go 5 to 4 to 3 cause much larger radius turn.
Is one more correct or incorrect for any reason???
As for the LWFW, I have one and have actually stalled the car with an aggressive "over blip" cause the revs dropped so fast (does that make sense?)
