Depape

hey guys,
i need some suggestions for Suspension setup, i have an 89 944 turbo and it feels really loose on the track right now...968 sways are on the way,and i want to get upgraded coilovers at all 4 corners. what is the best bang for the buck ??? (money is a pretty big concern, since im a student) so BANG FOR THE BUCK is what im looking for. (not neccesarly the cheapest). can u tell me your setup (spring rates and coil overs)

Depape

........im going to put this on the "modifications section" but dont know how to delete it.......still would like some answers

Z-man

For starters, what driving experience do you have? Track days? Run group? What do you mean by loose? Too much oversteer?

The 968 sways will help - as the rear bar will give you some adjustability. (Set it to soft or medium and work up/down from there).

There are three basic ways of going with 944 setup:

1. Coil overs at all four corners and the removal of the rear torsion bars
2. Coil overs up front, keep torsion bar in the back, and add lighter helper springs in the rear to balance the front to rear.
3. Coil overs up front, bigger rear torsion bar.

If you plan on going into club racing in the stock classes, you can't do option #1, as you need to retain the original suspension components (ie: the rear torsion bars).

What's the best bang for the buck? Depends on how much you wish to spend! JIC Cross suspensions seem to be the hot ticket these days. Bilstein and Leda also make fine systems for our cars. And then there's individual components and such... the sky's the limit in terms of what's out there for our cars.

Paragon has a Koni coil over kit you can get for your strut assembly - this kit will transporm your front suspension into a coil-over setup. That's about the cheapest coil over setup for the front you can get. For the rear of the car, the cheapest is probably getting a set of helper springs. (You will have to re-index your torsion bars to get your ride height back down.

My setup:
Front: Koni coil-over kit with Koni Yellows, with hypercoil 400lb springs. Kokeln A-arms, Racer's Edge Camber plates.
Rear: 31mm hollow torsion bars, Koni Yellow shocks, delrin bushings for the torsion bars, and solid torsion bar housing and tranny mounts.

Now, about some other things - in order to get an improved suspension into it's sweet spot, you really need to lower your car. That's where one of our car's achillies heel is evidenced - the front A-arms. On lowered track driven cars, the suspension geometery change causes the ball joint to bind up against the a-arm, which over time will cause stress cracks and this can eventually lead to catastrophic ball joint failure. This has been well-documented here and all over the Porsche 944 information on the web. (See Clark's garage website for starters). Your best bet is to replace the stock A-arms with aftermarket units. Problem is - they are expensive. Any good ones will run you about $1500 for the pair. Kokeln makes a really nice set (that's what I have). Charlie Arms are also quite popular. Blizzak also makes a good unit.

I'm sure others can chime in with more expert advise.
-Z-ma.n

Depape

thanks Z-man thats some good information, i meant stiffen up. the suspension is stock m030 and is feels pertty soft. do u think i should stick with the stock m030 shocks??? if i add some higher rate springs and lower the car up front that should stiffen it up a good bit correct.?? im going to do some more searching and use your info and hopefully ill find the good setup. thanks again!!!

N_Halbert

The M030 is not a bad suspension. If it is old you can send the shocks to Koni and have them rebuilt. Your sure your have the M030? It was not stock on all turbos. Adding the 968 M030 will do a lot to change roll but you will still get the squat.

Z-man does a good job of enumerating the various options. Most of them will set you back $2800-$3800. Rebuilding the shocks and sway bars will set you back the better part of $1000. That leaves you with several thousand for track time. You indicate cash flow is an issue. You can dump a boat load into the car and have a specs queen you can sit there and look at in the driveway or be spending more time on track learning to drive what you have.

Remember you have $10k car with $45K car repair bills. Just because you replace the suspension bits, doesn't mean the other maintenance issues will go away.

Oh, by the way, when you put in the front sway bar, check the brackets where they mount to the body and the control arms. They do fatigue and break. Another know problem with tracked cars. Look into adding a brace from the bar mount to the frame to triangulate it's support. You will be asking these parts to do a lot more work and they will break.

924RACR

Don't forget corner-balancing! Is your car even level? I don't know about the later cars, but the rear of the US 924's was raised for bumper height regulations. This unweighting of the rear makes the car pretty loose; if you lower the rear to be even with the front, the car sticks way better. Something to consider before you change anything, not that you shouldn't!

Russ Murphy

Yes, you can adjust the rear ride height via the eccentric on the spring plates on the later cars. That would be an excellent first step. That and the Paragon kit up front and you could actually lower and then corner balance the car all for about $200(??). You could go up to 200# front springs if you have some sway bar adjustability in back.

sidsport

I recently went the route of ride adj kit with 375# in front and 30mm t-bar in back on my S2. Maiden voyage is this weekend at VIR, so I can't say much yet. Depape, I live just up the hill from you in Asheville. Let me know if you want to come up and drive my car or need any mechanical help (did all but corner balance and alignment myself).

Brian Morris

If your looking for biggest bang for the buck, just upgrade your springs with your koni yellows. You can go up to 400 front with those shocks. You can get the coil over kit from paragon - needed to fit new, non stock springs. Common combos are 400 front springs with 30 mm rear T-bars, 350F/29R, 300F/28R.

Call Jason at Paragon, he can set you up with the whole package - should be about $750?? coil over kit, front springs, rear t-bars.

This is assuming your current shocks are still OK, if not you can have them rebuilt.

Once you get into replacing the shocks, going to coil-overs in the rear the price will go up dramatically.

I also agree that the stock 89 suspension is very soft - and I bought mine with 25K miles.

--Brian Morris
89 951

Depape

"The M030 is not a bad suspension. If it is old you can send the shocks to Koni and have them rebuilt. Your sure your have the M030? It was not stock on all turbos. Adding the 968 M030 will do a lot to change roll but you will still get the squat."

all '89 turbos were the "s" model that came with m030 right??? the front are adj. koni's so im guessing that i have the m030 correct??


so it looks like my best option is
1) rebuild shocks (can i get them revalved or something to make them more adj. and stiffer??)
2)higher rate springs in the front (can i go up to 400-300 w/ stock m030??)
3)bigger tbars (hollow)
4)lower ride hieght

.......and all this should be less than $1000 correct??

(and should i do any thing w/ rear shocks or leave them be??)

richard glickel.

I wouldn't bother rebuilding the rear dampers as they run about $95 a piece and the cost of the rebuild probably isn't much less (and maybe more) than that. From an economics stand point the m030 koni set-up ain't bad.

Paragon does sell rear adjustable konis. They're not cheap, but cost less than most of the "sophisticated" adjustable shocks. You can continue to utilize the torsion bars, but may need to re-index the bars depending upon rear spring rate (like if you go beyond 150 lbs). You may also consider the racer's edge or kokeln solid bushings which make a noticeable difference in handling.

Ciao!

Z-man

Less than $1000? Eh, not really. I bought my Koni coil overs and torsion bars (and the rear Koni shocks used), and rest of the stuff new. Wound up spending close to $5k when all was said and done. Don't forget, $1500 of that was the Kokeln A-arms.

-Z

Ski

Is the car going to be streetable and track, what are you going to run in: just DE, classed groups. do not forget your ball jts if on stock arms or get aftermarket arms.

Dedicated track cars are usually pretty stiff, our spring rate is 900 and 800, t-bar delete, Koni full coil over rear, M030 units F, sent to True Choice and revalved to B3 +(full race). KMR camber plates, RE front spherical bearings, KMR solid rear mounts, SSI ball jts(RE arms on the way but there may be a future new arm on the market soon) - you need to decide how the car will be used and how important teeth and kidneys are if it goes on the street.

Don't forget track alignment vs street alignment or find a nice in between and be aware of tire wear.
you can see some good photos of suspension stuff on the JAB Racing link in sig

renvagn

Call Pete Fitzpatrick at RS Barn 215-968-2599. He is outside of Phila, PA. Based on your objectives for the car he can give you advise as to spring rates, struts, sways, keeping the torsion bar or not ect.

Usually running with 4-5 regions per year doing 8-10 events per year, the car with the suspension changes we have made has little trouble running in the 90 percentile in Black at WGI, VIR, Summit and Pocono. Good Luck.

richard glickel.

Pete's a super guy. Two other fellows who can give you excellent advice concerning the 944 suspension are John Hajny and Karl Poetl. All three are pros.