MarkSchu

I was taught trail braking at skip barber, but during my last outing in my 911 SC G-class, it felt better to get on the throttle before turn in and use the throttle to contol car rotation. It seems like the two basic recipes for speed are a) late braking with trail braking after turn in, versus b) slightly earlier braking, downshifting and back on the throttle before turn in. Trail braking felt great in the mid engine open wheel cars at Skippy's, but the early throttle felt much better in the 911. What's the party line if any?

earlyapex

It really depends on the corner of course. In general, my exit speeds in medium to high speed corners are better the sooner I get on the gas. This is often very soon after turn initiation and way before I hit the apex of the corner.

mitch236

What really matters is getting the car to do what you need it to do. If you have too much understeer on corner entry, you would want to trailbrake more. The brakes (besides the basic slowing) are one of the tools to keep the contact patch balance to where you need it to be at any given time. The best way to find out your answer is to hire a coach and have him/her drive your car and see what they do.

Larry Herman

It all depends on the corner. There is no one absolute technique to use. Power helps give back of your car grip. When you apply it depends on the handling characteristics of your car, and the turn itself. Some cars work well off-throttle and like a lot of trailbraking way into the turn. 911s typically do not and like the power applied early in the turn. Still, on tighter and decreasing radius turns, you need to trailbrake the car in order to get it to turn-in and rotate. From that point out, you want to be on the throttle. In higher speed and increasing radius turns you may trail the brakes in a little to help turn-in, but you do not want or need rotation and so you will get back on the gas earlier in those turns.

MarkSchu

good advice and makes sense...thanks Larry.

38D

"The longer the duration of the corner, the more you trail brake. The shorter, the less."

- David Murry to me at Watkins Glen

Willard Bridgham 3

Whether you trail-brake also depends upon the handling characteristic of your car as well as the corner.

In a pretty neutral car, you really don't have to trail-brake much because the front tires are biting without weight transfer caused by trail braking....in a rear-engined car, trail braking loads the front tires so you can turn in.

There are corners where I trail-brake to rotate (long ones as already observed), but not many.

earlyapex

It sounds like you are over braking the corners and giving up entry speed. Carry some brake pressure after turn-in and get on the gas after the car settles.

Chris White

Are you referring to DE or race conditions? Brake that early in a race and you will have a lot of company!

Kiko

You're clearly overbraking. If you're doing it properly any touch on the throttle before apex WILL throw the car out of the line in understeer (specially on a road going 911) I say you're probably going in 2 or 3mph too slow.

Trail braking is a very usefull tool on 911's or front-engined/FWD cars were the rear is difficult to rotate. On slow to mid speed turns TB reduces understeer dramatically and in mid speed corners it settle the car by distributing the loads better increasing the speeds on turn in AND through the corner.

The 100% use of grip rule applies: brake as hard as the traction allows you to (in a straight line) but as soon as you start to turn the wheel for turn in you MUST reduce brake pressure accordingly because you're making use of the tire's lateral traction now and both forces combined will obviously not exceed 100%.

MarkSchu

I don't which 911 you drive where the rear end is difficult to rotate. It sure does not take much for my G racer. I found I could easily over rotate the car with trail braking, and again, I found the car much more stable in medium to high speed turns when I got on the throttle before turn in. As suggested previously, in tight turns at the end of long straights, late braking and trail braking would seem to be the best technique to carry more speed into the corner and get the car rotated.

Larry Herman

This "no gas before the apex" stuff again?

Veloce Raptor

I concur with both of Larry's posts here. This is what I teach.

mitch236

As I stated before, traibraking is a technique to keep the contact patch where you need it given the circumstances. There is no definite rule about when to use trailbraking. Throttle, brakes and steering are the inputs at your disposal and you need to first realize that those three inputs provide more than just their primary objectives. They are also used for car balance and keeping the contact patch maximized so that your friction circle is as large as you can get it in the direction you need it to be.

BTW, Larry's advice is always (usually) spot on.

Kiko

I meant FWD cars were sometimes difficult to make the rear rotate not 911's although the newer generation 996's in stock form understeer badly as well.