jaholmes

I am wanting to prep my new '97 993 C4S for the Chicago PCA TRAC 2006 Race in Elkhart Lake, WI, Specifically the DE Events and trace time at the Joliet, IL Autobahn club. To be eligable for the DE events it looks like you need a 5 or 6 point harness setup and matching for both seats along with an approved helmet. I do have all of the PCA rules but I need some help intrepreting them along with some real world advice. I know there are other things like a tech inspection but that I think I can handle that.

First, the harness setup. For the time being I will be using the stock seats. The options that I have narrowed down are bars from Brey-Krause and their seat belt hardware.

The harness guide with the top harness straps attached to the rear seat belts and the laps attached to the side belts. As far as the 5th and 6th belts go I am not sure where to put them and I am not really ready to drill holes in my car. I can probably attach 5 and 6 to the side belts but I saw a rule that did not allow two belts to attach to one point. However, this may only apply to the club racing and not the DE events.

It looks like there is an anti sub strap mount but it is for the 996 and boxster. Is there something similar for the 993. Are there other mounting holes that can be uses.

The other option is to get the Brey-krause harness truss and attach the top belts to it. All of the other belts will be attached in the same way above.

I am leaning more towards the harness guide since it can be easily removed when not in use. The truss looks like it is there to stay.

The other big part of this is what harness to go with. It looks like there are specific top harness lengths and I need to make sure they will reach the back seats. I measured it out and it looks like 48" belts would work.

I will probably get the fire extinguisher and mount for the seat even though it is not required.

I will also trailer the car so I will get the tow strap loops from p-car.com.

What kind of tape can I use to protect the front end during transport and on the track. I see some pictures of what looks like blue painters tape on the front in, or is there something else that people use. Is a car cover the best for transport.

Some other nice to haves are race brakes pads and race tires so I do not trash my new P-Zeros.

Any other help would be greatly appreciated. And if anyone else on rennlist is going it would be great to hear from them.

Thanks,

Jim

bruinbro

I think you lost it at "For the time being I will be using the stock seats."

Bro

Capt. Carrera

You know, you could email the chief instructor and/or club-race chairman for the event and get definitive answers. But just for the fun of it, let's suppose you have. And below are the constraints you must abide with.

• No roll bar or cage.
• Stock seats only.
• Can't run OEM pendulum belts.

I'd go with the BK-truss setup. If it's anything like the ones I've seen for the 911 (and it should be) it’s pretty easy to R&R between events. I'd then attach dual subs to the same point as the lap belts. Bring them over the sides of the seats, and sit on them. (After all, the SCCA GCR says you can mount your racecar six-point subs using the lap belt attachment points.)

After you get the belts installed, measure them. Then take all the belts out and reinstall them. But this time add 30% to the length of each belt. That's how long the belts will be in an accident. After you have them reinstalled, get in and check the following.

• Will you slide under the lap belts?
• Will the shoulder belts slide apart letting you careen through the windshield?
• Where will your head be when the air bag goes off?
• Will you stay in the seat?

Whatever you do, do NOTrun the sub, or subs, over the front of the seat cushion.
(If you doubt me, try the above exercise and see how far you can wiggle under the lap belts. Make sure you bend your legs, and compress the seat cushion. I bet you can get the belts almost up to your arm pits if you try.)


Hoping you find this info helpfull...

RedlineMan

Jim;

This is a MOST complicated topic. First, you DO need to carefully check with your region on what they allow as far as equipment. Many PCA regions try to be "proactive" and are banning certain types of hardware and/or combinations.

One of those might likely be harnesses with stock seats. North East Region (Boston) has banned that setup. The integral headrest Porsche seats can slip the belts off your shoulders in a crash, especially if you are short. Super especially if you run the belts a long distance.

Belt length is related to belt stretch - the more material, the more overall elongation. For that reason, it is not a good idea to use a guide bar and mount the belts to distant rear seatbelt holes. You would be better off with the truss to keep the belt length short. It is no more difficult to remove than a guide bar.

If I were you, I would not jump into modifying the car. It will be plenty capable as it is, far more so than its driver. Undertaking safety upgrades has great potential for REDUCING your safety if you do something improper, and that is much easier to accomplish than you might imagine. Get your feet wet and look around first before you jump off the cliff. If you insist, we can get more indepth, but it may take a few pages.

It is a cliff, you know?

Bull

Northern New Jersey Region has also banned harnesses with stock seats.

Bob Rouleau

jaholmes - I do not know of any PCA region that requires a harness bar and harness for Driver's Ed except for highly modified cars in the top run group (CVR for example).

The use of a harness bar with stock seats, or any seats without holes for the shoulder straps to pass through is banned by several regions as already obseerved by John and others. My region allows them but you must wear the OEM seat belt on top of the harness since the harness without the right seats is not safe should there be an accident.

Good advice has been given. Check with the event organizer to know the rules you need to follow. Most regions are perfectly happy with a stock car (some older Cabriolets excepted). At worst you may need a fire extinguisher. If the DE is run by a PCA region, their website should have the rules. You can reach any PCA region via www.pca.org - look for the links to carious regions.

Lastly, I am not a fan of a harness in a car without roll over protection. John H will probably disagree with me, but CI's don't always agree

Best,

Dave in Chicago

In Chicago Region, you're typically stuck in Novice class with stock 3-points...

From Chicago Region Tech sheet.

Pinging Todd Conforti, region safety chair is a good idea. Also, the team at Northstar Motorsports in Barrington can show you good belt-mounting options. I used to use the "sit on the subs" method with stock seats. It's gotta be done right, but seems well recommended by safety experts I have spoken with.

Both contacts are listed at www.pca-chicago.org.

Heck, I may be the guy teching your car up there for the Club Race weekend!

jaholmes

I didn't realize GT3 seats fit in the 993. So those are on the upgrade short list.

jaholmes

All,
Thanks for your help and insight on this. I started here first to see what other are doing as far as the harness goes. What lead me down this path are the DE requirements for Road America. Since it is a more difficult track, PCA wants to be as safe as possible. The other DE events in the Region like Gingerman, Blackhawk and Autobahn are more relaxed if you are starting out in the Green and Yellow classes.

Dave,

I have already started to talk with the Chicago region PCA guys to make sure I understand the chicago region requirements and that my set-up works. I may send you a PM.

I was able to source a B-K Harness guide at Midwesteurosport and I work in Hoffman Estates so I am going on a shoping spree at Northstar to get the harness, mounts and helmet.

Just to sum things up, it looks like for DE events a 6 pt harness using stock seats and a harness guide is a decent setup. I will not be looping the subs in front of the seat, I will be sitting on them. If all goes well, the start of next season I will be upgrading to race seats and possibly a rollbar.

Now the only problem is that I have a tan interior and the GT3 seats are black.....ahem...

Thanks again for all of your insight and great advice. I hope to see you out on the track.

Thanks,

Jim

Rob in VA

Jim, you can get the GT3 seats in most colors including tan.

RedlineMan

No, go back and read again.

A guide bar will lead to long belt paths and less safety in the extreme. The extreme being if you hit something, which is quite what we're preparing for and working against here. Use a MOUNT bar like the BK truss. Not only will it keep belt paths short, but it will mount the belts to solid end plates which keeps the belt ends fixed in one spot laterally. Sounds like H-strap harnesses are fine for Chicago Region.

For what it's worth, I agree with their assessment that H-strap shoulder belts are a decent mitigation of the belt slip issue. I don't happen to think that banning harnesses and stock seats - and forcing folks to get race seats - is necessarily the right thing to do.

rsa

Go to PCA.org and look up the Chicago region link for the TRAC weekend. The requirements stipulate 5 or 6 pt harnesses, etc. for the fast group. Stock belts allowed for the slower group. Run what you have in the appropriate group. Note that this event is apparently for drivers with previous experience at RA.

GUMBALL

I can't emphasise this point enough. I gave myself a proper fright driving a students car during driving instruction several years ago....the belts slipped down from my shoulders to my elbows....trapping my arms at my side - where I couldn't reach the steering wheel.....fortunately, it was on the straight, and we weren't going very fast, so I had time to get free...

..BUT..

It could have been ugly.....

jaholmes

This is definately a tough croud.

I talked to John at Northstar in person about the BK harness guide vs. the harness truss. He said that the harness guide will definately handle attaching the harness directly to it. He did not advise using the guide to attach to the rear seats. Like many others have said, there is way too much belt legth and travel and the guide would be better attach point then the back seat.

I also understand that other PCA-Chicago DE events do not require a 5 or 6 point setup but Road America does. And I do have some experience at Road America and one of the DE Instructors is going to work with me. I will definately be in the slow group. The DE coordinator seemed to stongly recommend a harness.

I ended up getting a Sabelt 6 point harness. Now my issues is where to attach the anti-subs. On the outside, the BK seatbelt mount will handle two harness clips, but the inside tunnel will not. Since this is a 993, with the BK 996 Anti-sub mounting bracket work, or would it be easier to just drill the damn hole and be done with it, with race seats in mind.

Has anyone ever doubled-up the BK seat belt hardware, would a locking carabiner work. Or should I refer back to the drill the damn hole.

Thanks,

Jim

RedlineMan

Jim;

Probably the best solution is to drill a belt hole in the center tunnel and be done with it. The best thing to do there is have someone spotweld a sizeable piece of .125" steel plate to reinforce the hole and make it like a factory mount. This really is not much more work than putting a loose plate behind it, and it is DEFINITELY stronger.

Do check inside the tunnel and make sure the coast is clear. I think it is.

As for the BK belt aparatus, BK says that you are NOT supposed to attach belts directly to their R1010 guide bar. Only the R1025 Truss is made specifically for that purpose. They make them and test them. I would go with their recommendation.

Food for Thought - The belt bar can see upwards of 3000lbs +/- of load in an "average" crash (30-40G), and that is generated by only one occupant.

We're tough because... we love you, man!