forklift

I didn’t want to hijack Mr. Curtis’s thread so I though I would start a new one. I have asked a few of you about this, but in wake of the opinions on the other thread I thought I would ask for more.

How much faster per lap at say VIR or WG are remote reservoir double adjustable shocks (Moton, JRZ, etc.) than properly valved Bilstein RSRs? I think the guys in GTC1 have to run the RSRs and they are all super fast. Do you think those guys will really be two seconds faster (or whatever) with remote reservoir shocks?

I am still looking at axing my PSS9s, but haven’t made the decision on what to replace them with. RSRs will no doubt be cheaper with less maintenance, but I don’t want to buy RSRs and then wish I had bought JRZs.

If I go w/ RSR, I am hoping they will be much better than my PSS9s. Right now the front is way too soft to keep it from understeering. The ***** are broken on the rear and I have no idea what they are set on, which sucks. The soft suspension in the front is killing my front tires.

Thanks!

Larry Herman

Jim, if you get the RSR shocks valved to perfectly match your suspension, then there really might not be any difference between them and the adjustables. The only problem is what valving is perfect?

With the fully adjustables, if you need a little more rebound in the rear to help with turn-in, bingo. If you have to soften all the shocks becuase the track is bumpy, voila.

That being said, it takes a lot of knowledge and car feel to really be able to extract the most out of them. I still haven't skimmed the surface of mine.

ZBlue996Kam

If the remote eservoir system keeps the shock cool all or most of the time, that's the system to get.

I love the PSS-9 because I drive my car on the road more than on the tracks. For a dedicated track car I would definitely not use PSS-9.

If money is not an issue, get the JRZ or Motons. It might be cheaper in the long run. Don't forget about the springs too.

forklift

Thanks guys. I will wait until I can get the JRZs.

tkerrmd

I'm in the same boat you are in looking for new suspension with the same considerations. I was thinking of the JIC cross set up. they may be between the RSR's and the JRZ/ohlin/moton in performance and price range.

Apex Rex

I have only heard of great things about the JIC Cross set-up.

Matt Romanowski

Talk to the suppliers / manufacturers about how they are valved. Valving depends on car weight, spring rates, style, etc. When you buy them, if you are running something different than they initially planned on, you won't get the most our of the shock. As for your Bilsteins, talk to someone that can revalve and fix them for you. You may be pleasantly surprised.

Matt

bruinbro

I have the JIC's on my 2000 S Boxster and it is dialed in perfectly. I get essentially the same tire temp readings across the tire faces (random differences of 1 degree) and even tire wear on my MPSC's. This is with me (the somewhat newb) and other very good drivers driving the car at both tracks at Willow Springs. I'm learning how to drive and have a beginner's grasp of what is good, but others have told me not to change anything except the brakes. I set them in the middle of the adjustment range front and rear for the track and full soft for the streets. Need to see what happens on other tracks (if the damn car would quit breaking on me...)



Bro

RJay

If you can't figure out how to setup the doubles properly, then the RSRs could easily be the better choice. As was pointed out to me in threads from a year or two ago, if you're aware enough to know that your car is understeering, neutral or oversteering on entry, mid corner and exit on any given corner, than DblAdjs might be for you. OTOH, if you're not the type to either recognise this or hate to get under the car and mess about, the RSRs are the way to go. One other thing to consider is that these shocks require more maintainence, some of which require going back to the factory for refurbishing.

Nader Fotouhi

Is this for club racing or DEs? IMO, the average club racers that run the adjustable shocks have no idea how to set them up (that is their word). You will benefit a lot more from putting the extra money you would spend on adjustable shock towards track days.

A good race shop that knows your type of car can set you up with the correct valving of shocks, spring rate and other suspension components to maximize your handling. How to mak the car go faster is up to you.

BTW, I chose non-adjustable. I can still play with set up by changing sway bar settings and tire pressure, not to mention changing spring rates (more difficult adjustment). To me that is enough variables to deal with.

Nader

KOAN

I recently changed from PSS9s to Motons. The Motons are a little tricky to set up, but are vastly superior to PSS9s on the track. I have now had them to 4 DEs, and it is difficult to quantify in seconds how much faster they are. I've made my fastest laps at a few tracks, but there are other variables like tires and track surfaces which complicate things. However, it is very interesting to see how adjustments have a profound effect on specific aspects of turns. The control is vastly superior to PSS9s, and it is much more fun to tune. No doubt, this comes with a high cost. I was tempted to go with JIC Cross, but didn't want to make the same mistake that I made with PSS9s.

bruinbro

Did you really make a mistake with the PSS9's? Sounds like you climbed the expereince ladder and now can appreciate the nuances of shock control. My guess is the JIC's would have been fine for your level of experience, but then you might have outgrown them later.

From what i can gather, suspension setup (including tires) is kind of like other sports like skiing, golf or tennis. There are some gross things about your equipment that will allow you to improve at the beginning (non-wooden skiis, metal drivers, large head racket), then finer changes in equipment that mark the need to go beyond the novice stage (boots, ski length, custom fit clubs, grips, strings) and then higher tech stuff that allows you to "be all you can be" (such as ski shape/composition, custom poles, club shaft material, racket material) that the novice wouldn't appreciate.

Bro

KOAN

Bro,
You may be right about the JICs. I'll never know. I did notice a huge difference when I put double adjustable shocks on my Audi about 5 years ago, but don't have adjustable sway bars, and with 4WD and the Torsen, I believe I am insuated from some of the subtleties of suspension tuning. The PSS9s were a disappointment as soon as I put them on. The car either pushed or the rear slid. It was great for the street, but only average for the track. The spring rates are too low. It isn't possible to fine tune them. I couldn't feel the difference between adjacent settings, only 2-3 clicks, very much unlike the Motons.
Not to nit pick, but how do you know what my level of experience is? I've instructed from Sears Point to Watkins Glen over the past decade, and see 25 track days a year. I'm still learning, though, and can't say that track days equate to knowledge or skill. Hopefully, I'm not yet all that I can be. ;-)

bruinbro

I don't. I was just guessing from the general tone of the thread. It seemed to me that if you just came to the realization you needed to change the PSS9's that you had moved up a step on the experience ladder.

If you out in SoCal, please PM me. I would like to get instruction if you are willing.

Bro

forklift

Thanks Chuck. Good to hear from someone who made the switch from PSS9s.