hacker-pschorr

I've read about / seen a few F1 tracks where instead of sand / pea gravel there is a rough paved runoff area. This way if a driver over cooks the corner, they have a chance to regain control - get back on the track. How many off track incidents where someone hits the gravel could have been avoided if there was more pavement to control the car? Sure you still need gravel / tires / wall after in case someone totally losses it.

#1 corner I am thinking about is the kink at Road America. Here you have track – grass – wall within a 10 foot area. How many cars could be saved if there was pavement between the wall and the track? Once you drop a tire off into the grass in the kink, 9/10 times you are a goner. Yes I understand if you add this people would try to use the extra track to go faster. Why not use the same kind of grooved / rough pavement used on FIA tracks in Europe? Purposely driving on it would slow the car down, not be an advantage. One downside would be from the weekend warriors during DE events who would now take the kink even faster since now it’s “safer”.

I’m sure everyone here could come up with a list of corners in the US that could benefit from more concrete runoff for safety vs. instant pea gravel or grass.

Found this on the topic:
http://www.racesafety.com/news_detail.html?NEWSID=312

karlooz

another prime place for paving runout would be T10 at sears point. it goes from~20ft runoff down to 2 in a hurry. paving that whole are would be better than just widening the track outside of the berm.

another good reason for the paving is that you won't need a tow out of the kitty litter if you find youself stuck. no more black flags i.e., down track time when one gets stuck. just get your composure and drive back onto the track. prime example is at laguna seca where gravel is everywhere. too bad they wont pave these areas due to moto GP rules.

one thing to consider is that once you pave these areas then there is a possibility that the charactereistics of the track will change. drivers may take advantage and will "widen" the track. i have been guilty of this behaviour. my local track, thunderhill, has certain sections that i have taken advantage of the new paving. it has totally changed braking, entry, corner speed, etc... to a point where i am straightlining a chicane and turning a 2 apex hairpin into a one long sweeper. certain clubs put up cones to prevent this "behaviour" but once the cones are punted off then it's a free-for-all again. i think more aggressive berms would be a better deterrent.

Jon Moeller

WGI did a really nice job of this in turn 1. I watched a GT3 do a nice pirouette onto the runoff pavement, last year. With the old gravel/sand, they would have been pulling rocks out of the car for days, at best.

-J

analogmike

That's one good turn out of about 50 on the east coast. Plus a few more fairly safe turns I can think of (one at Lime Rock, a few in Sebring, one at Atlanta, etc). Not a very good ratio- our tracks are the worst. I'd love to drive on some of the tracks in Europe or out West, they look awesome and so much safer.

mein51

Would the paved run-off areas have a rough enuogh surface to enhance wet tracktion? Pea gravel can drain well during a rainy weekend (via a french drain or something similar) so its not greatly affected. My concern is standing water inhibiting an "excursionist" from coming to a stop or gaining control before they meet a wall or armco. I have no experience with paved runoffs, so thats why I'm curious. Any thoughts?

A930Rocket

I'm sure some of the guys in Nascar like the paved runoff sections at the big tracks vs grass. Gives them time to scrub off speed before hitting the inside wall or time to gain control to pit and change flat spotted tires.

RedlineMan

Hey;

It as advantages, and dissadvantages. The Glen paved the trap over in Turn 1. If you go off because you over cooked it, you have lots of room to gitter whoa'd down and make it back out.

If you go off because you have no brakes, I'm not sure the pavement presents any distcint advantage.

Capt. Carrera

The obvious issue is the cost of that paved run-off. (Which in turn translates to your costs to run on the track.) Paved track costs LOTS of money. It's not like you just lay down some asphalt. Sand trap and tires are cheap by comparison.

earlyapex

Paved run off sections can also be huge billboards for sponsors.

I would love to see T2 at Laguna Seca paved. This would save countless laps under the yellow to extract tracked cars. I unfortunately don't see this happening any time soon as motorcycle racing draws the big crowds and pays the bills. The gravel traps were deepened for MotoGP racing and now are death traps for cars.

mooty

i like paved run off too, but how do you prevent ppl from using the runoff area as part of the track, think T8 and the esses at thunderhill.

karlooz

that's what i was thinking. it used to be if the corner workers saw 4 wheels off into the pavement runoff then you would be black flagged... 3 black flags and you are done for the day. it appears that they have been very lax. this would be enough of a deterrent for me.

karlooz

it sux that laguna seca caters more to the motorcycles and for the ONE motoGP race but that ONE race supposedly draws more than the F1GP at indy.

mrbill_fl

paving vs gravel traps -OR- paving vs grass? big difference...

the gravel traps help stop the car before the wall, (impact) so that OK in my book.

grass often speeds up the car, like ice, especially when wet... which is pretty often in Fla. so, grass is more of a cost savings issue for the track (imho).

several tracks /turns I'd like to see grass replaced with Either gravel or paving...

not to mention the 'rare' grass fire during dry months (dbl yellows)

OTOH, once a car reenters a gravel trap, they spit rocks for the rest of the weekend... cracked a windshield following a car spitting rocks from a trap...

Jarez Mifkin

How about the Kink at Barber? I just finally got where I was using all of the curbs by the end of the PCA CR weekend and touched the grass a couple of times. With pavement out there I wouldn't have worried about it and would've pushed even harder.

karlooz

but pavement will stop you faster than gravel.