DrJupeman

I'm not sure I follow this logic. If you think you have marginal brakes, wouldn't you brake less and thus enter the turn faster?

Remember, all cars are momentum cars!

purplehaze.

wouldn't you brake less and thus enter the turn faster?

Yes. That's the goal.

I noticed on GT3's with ceramic brakes, they could wail up to a turn, get hard on the binders and decrease speed in a shorter amount of pedal time. I would lock up if I waited until their brake point.

Granted, I'm probably over braking but need to be longer on the pedal to get the similar decrease in speed. That was all I was trying to say.

I don't argue I SHOULD be entering and exiting with more speed. That's the goal for the next track day.

Gary R.

One thing Dan Jacob's taught me early on :

"Brakes just slow you down"

purplehaze.

Good point Gary!

I'm disconnecting them ..... or tie the brake pedal to an electric shock switch

"We don't need no stinkin' brakes....."

RedlineMan

Glenn;

I have to say I admire your attitude, especially being from Connecticutt and all. What you have sort of gotten to yourself here is that you simply need more seat time in this car to get comfortable with it, and its potential and habits. From your vid, I can see that this is going to be difficult for you a lot of the time, as the other cars are much slower.

Add to that that the drivers are as well, and doubly so. Not only are they slower in the corners, but they are slower in recognizing your speed potential, and moving you by expeditiously. Nothing against them. They are intermediates. That's what White is for. You may be an intermediate, but yer car sure aint!

It is also true that moving up can be problematic. Suddenly you find yourself in the roll of those drivers you fought to escape, with people chewing on YOUR bumper all the time. Neither situation lends itself to personal discovery as it pertains to your own driving. You're a "tweener."

I predict you will do just fine.

bobt993

As far as Black VS Red group driving. Larry will tell you our region is a little different. We have plenty of instructors running Black because of hp. Larry typically runs in Red with his GT3, but I bet he will run some sessions in Black with the new car to mix it up. Last event, I started doing the same in reverse (running with Red to improve turn in speeds and LFB technics). HP in Red is usually 400hp + and not required to be instructors either (most do though). Just a different flow of driving. Our white group used to be congested with 3 levels of driving, now our Black group has become the busy group. I personally like to the tighter grouping in Black as being passed by a tweeked GT2 (650hp) or a GT3 on slicks does make for much of a carrot to chase. Now if I can just find another 150hp in the garage somewhere.

dave morris

I'm not sure I understand your point. My earlier post was that a 2:09 seems pretty fast for a driver to be in Black. Further, I opined that in DEs, drivers should be grouped by relative speed ... not by whether or not they instruct. The same thing applies to HP. 400HP is not a qualification to run in Red. Using that lap time ( 2:09) to group drivers, you'd have some pretty impressive drivers in Black in your next DE. At the last Glen race, C. Boyer would just make it into Red with his best time of 2:08.9 in GTC1. Larry Herman would be in Black with his best time of 2:09.8 in C. B. Brensinger in his 380HP GT3 would be in Black with his 2:09.3 in B.

I could well be wrong, but I'd guess you don't have many drivers in Black running 2:09s at the Glen. They're in Red.

bobt993

Dave, never said everyone is running 2:09s, but we have a few really fast combo drivers/cars and yes they go by me. Tony's 550hp 993, Tom's new lightweight Red Car(his son is running), Carl T, John G, (sorry if I am missing someone). We have alot of Red and Black group drivers running in Black. My comment was the speed on the track in the Black group, whether your wearing a Red or Black wrist band is irrelevant since this plainly exist in our Black group. I see at least 4 cars per session in Black running sub 2:10's at the Glen and alot mixing it up in the 2:15s but these are class D and lower cars.

There is definitely some overlap in Red/Black as far as speeds, but out of 20 cars in Red, I put 15 of them as high HP or 2000lb rockets.

purplehaze.

Touche' John! Serves me for that 944 crack.

Thanks for the vote of confidence though. Yes, more seat time and instruction will help. I'm just impatient. Hence why I bring artillery to a knife fight. It's just not fair to the others, but it's a whole lot of fun for me.

I do see the logic in grouping similar speed car/drivers. Safer, more competetitive, etc. I'll have to check that out in other clubs. Except where Bob and Dave run - you guys have some FAST drivers in black and red. Maybe I'll just skip those northern NY events for a while ..... must be something in the water or cheese.

Bob, is your baby a 993tt or NA? Wieslaw Gola was the only one to pass me, in a 993tt (with "minor head work"). Of course it was in the rain, but he did out drive me. Great guy, he made it fun.

Glenn

dave morris

Huh?? Not sure I get your point? A 2:09 is pretty darn fast ... whether in Black or Red.

Bob, Thanks for the clarification. I don't know Tony or Tom, but I believe Carl T's best time in the recent Glen Sprint race was 2:14.3 and John G's was 2:16. I believe in DEs, Carl runs in Black and John in Red. And I certainly agree, there are lots and lots of very good drivers in both those groups. Didn't understand you too be saying everyone in Black was capable of a 2:09. My point was that there are probably very few in Black at or under 2:09.

purplehaze.

Dave,

Oh, 2:09 is sweet!

I just meant that I didn't need you speedy guys right on my tail (turning 2:09's), as I'm trying to learn faster turn in's. That was all.

Glenn

bobt993

Dave,

Keep in mind, Larry's running 200 lbs of lead to meet weight in class and literally just got the car (he being modest, which is hard for Larry, LOL) . Tom's best time is a 2:09 and his new car weighs 500 lb less. John G has run faster than that as anytime I pass him I have to look in my mirrors as he gets the red mist. I think it just matters what mood he is in. Forgot about Danny O who gets a stock 993 around the Glen in 2:14s before the track upgrades last year. The real point was for Glen to get an instructor to go with him, so he can feel confident running in a higher group. Most solo drivers never see another instuctor in their car and develope bad habits. I have never stopped borrowing racers to ride with me, hell I had a member of one of the ALMS teams ready to ride with me 2 weeks ago, but cracked a rotor the session before.

Glenn, I run an NA at full weight and a 2:15 (and that's not at all consistent) is a really good time for me personally, hope to get better next time there. Keep up the good work.

dave morris

Couldn't agree more. I was able to get Tom Soriano out with me last weekend and he helped a lot.

purplehaze.

Dave and Bob,

I promise. I'll get several instructors to sit with me. Get input on the apexes, slide the rear a tad, and see about getting into black.

Bob, 2:15 is great! Love those cars ....

Glenn

Tony356993

Bob,

Thanks for the extra hp. I'm not sure it is quite 550. Stock (993 TT) was about 410 and as much as Joe Fabiani would like the muffler bypasses to add 100+ hp, I not sure it did.

I have just finished back to back w/e's at the glen (zone1 & Potomac). I ran in red & black with Zone 1 and ran in black only with Potomac. The car has a curb weight of 3307 lbs plus another 250 lbs with my big but in the driver's seat. PSS-9's and R06 Hoosiers. My best time for both events was 2:15. This was "chasing" Pete Tremper's 914-6 in the black group (@ Zone 1) with both of us working our way through traffic. Pete & I had a blast taking turns pushing each other. The black group drivers at the Zone were much faster than the black group from Potomac.

During the 3 days @ Potomac's event, I was never pushed or passed in the black group. They had some great drivers in black but most were lower hp cars and most of the drivers have had less days at the glen. My learning curve would have been better if I were permitted to run with red with Potomac. The black group with my region (RTR) has some very fast cars/drivers as Bob has mentioned. Different regions and different events will have varying cars and speeds. This is what make driving with other regions fun for me. I do not know the other cars or drivers and it teaches me better vision and strategy on the track.

I suggest that your run group color does not always suggest you will be driving with like lap time drivers. To me, it is a great learning tool.I suggest what others have suggested. Seat time!!

Glenn- Your car is awesome and it deserves your respect. As 38, Bob, Larry and John have mentioned - INCREASE YOUR ENTRY SPEEDS GRADUALLY. I started DE with a stock Boxster and ran on street tires for years getting the feel of car control. Bob and I had some fun back in the Boxster days just as we do now with our 993's. I agree with John that you should be running at least part of your events on street tires. This will make you a better/faster driver quicker and avoid a learning "mistake" on track tires and booger up that nice car.

If you see my black beast at an event, stop and say hello. I'd be happy to ride with you even though there are others more skilled to give opinions. As Steve mentioned, get as many rides as you can from instructors. Try and befriend an instructor with a like car. This will help replicate the feel in the seat of your pants that you can transfer into your own car. I (even now) take rides with more seasoned drivers. You can never stop learning. Just advance gradually and with respect for the car. Remember, there is no prize $$.

Tony