Gary R.

Agree with you on the instructor ride, you can learn a LOT in a couple laps and then go out and try it. As for the hands, I was taught to shift my grip and I love keeping my hands in the 9-3 "area", I think I have better balance and am in more control that way..

RedlineMan

Glenn;

Next time you hit the track, use old burned up Rs or even street tires. Watching your dry vid just now, I get the impression that you were not able to come anywhere near accessing the limits of the car. One - because of the traffic, especially those not up to signalling a car of that pace. You need to be in a higher group. Two - because you might just have too much grip with Hoosiers, coilovers, 18s, and no and on.

Allowing the car to move around at a more sedate pace will tell you what you need to know about its balance and tendancies. You will also be able to work on the earlier turn-in, longer late apex thing at a pace that will not outstrip your comfort level. I do this at every event, and/or when I feel I have plateaued - with what I call my first day tires (ancient 008Rs) - and it is always amazing how much faster I am when I go to fresher rubber. The confidence boost from the slide car to the grip monster is huge, and I am more confident in exploiting that grip after managing sliding around for a day doing the rally thing.

That's a stupid fast car. It will take a lot to be a stupid fast driver too, but your attitude is golden!

purplehaze.

Steve, Gary, and John -

Thanks for the input.

Steve - I do stop learning WHEN I get cocky. You make great points about continuing to ride and be coached from instructors. Will do.

Re my "shuffle steering" - I think I do that from old autocross days (VW), years ago. I'm comfortable with it and I do feel more in control. I can change my apexing more easily than the shuffle steering. That's habit.

John - excellent point about learning more from old/street tires. I actually got excellent car feedback on the first day; raining, using MPS2's. Plowed once, oversteered once, and locked once. Not quite the time to try getting the back around, but I get your point. Next event I'll try my first run back on the PS2's. Great suggestion! Try to early apex and get the rear to point the car in the right direction. I do remember the jump in performance after getting good at autox on street tires, and then getting the first set of A008R's.

(PS - Great website John. Very interesting 930 project. Just crammed a huge elephant racing oil cooler up front and considered that similar ducting for more flow. Temps were fine at WGI so I'll skip it for now.)

Sounds as though you think the extra grip provided by Hoosiers/suspension might make it harder to find the limit, especially when I need to rotate the **** around. No?

It IS stupidly fast, and so unfair to the other white group drivers. I'm just trying not to be too stupid about it.

Appreciate the suggestion to go up a group. I agree for only faster cars - but I think I still have some basics to practice.

Thanks guys, and Happy 4th!

Glenn

bobt993

Have an instructor go out with you in white, then out with you in black. If he is uncertain of your corner entry speeds, have another instructor go out with you to confirm advancement to black group. I moved a very accomplished student to blue last week, road with him in blue and all of the sudden there was a car very close on his tail. It did affect his driving, but not enough to take away advancement.

At the Glen our black group runs 2:09s up to about 2:25s so you would be in there. But none of these cars are more than 300hp so entry and corner speeds are alot more than you are used to yet. You might pass a car and see them on your tail in the corner or worse, see them inside your line going much faster in the corner since to run that fast there line is "earlier" and carries alot of momentum.

Larry Herman

2:09s, with 300 hp, in a street car, on DOTs? You wouldn't be talking about yourself here, would you Bob?

Actually Glenn, Bob gives some good advice here. As you move up into the faster groups, most of the speed comes from cornering, and if you are running similar times, the other cars will be all over you in the corners and braking zones.

RedlineMan

MMMWWuhahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

Gary R.

I was managing under 2:25's with my 178HP G Stock (pretty clear track) so I would imagine that car is capable of a lot lower times.. Wish I knew why my UltraLap was only saving one lap though.. maybe I should read the FM before LRP this friday?

dave morris

At the Glen our black group runs 2:09s up to about 2:25s

dave morris

Gee ... somebody running a 2:09 in Black? I'm surprised. I would think that would be more than enough to move to Red.

Gary R.

Red = Instructor, at least in all PCA Regions I run in. In CVR you have to be in Black for a while before going for Red (to instruct), maybe in other Regions the rule is different..

dave morris

Yeah, it is. Most likely someone turning a 2:09 is a pretty good driver with a pretty fast car. Maybe the driver referred to earlier just doesn't want to instruct? And maybe that's why he/she's in Black. If so, I'd say he should be moved to Red. Makes more sense to me to group drivers based on relative speed rather than whether or not they instruct.

Gary R.

To be clear (sometimes i'm not), being in Red does not mean the driver is faster in our Region, simply that a Black group driver has decided to become an instructor. I'm quite sure some of the Black group drivers out there are faster than some of the Red group but as you point out, don't want to instruct.

dave morris

No, you were perfectly clear. I was simply saying that not all Regions group driver's the way you described CVR does. And pointing out the reason.

Gary R.

Gotcha!

Thanks.

purplehaze.

Good points Larry, John, Bob, and Gary -

I can see I'll have John and Bob all over my a## in the turns unless I increase my entry speeds .... Thanks for the motivation guys! I mean, losing to a 944!? Where's the dignity in that?

I think I'll take the prior advice before requesting a faster run group. Get an instructor, take it out on street tires, increase entry and exit speeds, and practice getting the tail to steer the car where necessary.

I used that technique especially at the left hander at Lime Rock with my old 87 911. Kick it out to get it lined up for power. Get back to being a momentum driver, as if I didn't have the HP. THEN ask to be checked out for Black. I like the idea of using the instructor for white, then black try out.

Part of my lower entry speeds are due to slower/unpredicatble cars ahead, some to ok brakes, and mostly driving the wrong line (apex). I actually felt more comfortable driving right behind my instructor friend Dave because I KNEW he'd late brake, knew he'd get back on the gas, and always knew he knew where I was in relation. That predictability makes it safer I think.

Glenn