N_Halbert

After years of talking about getting proper seats and 5pt harnesses I finally got off the side lines. I decided to go with the Ultra-Shield rally aluminum race seats, 16" 10degree layback for the driver and 18" for the passenger (you never know what size or shape a passenger/instructor may come in. )



The belts are Schroth Profi II ASM FE which can be used as 4,5 or 6pt and are street legal.



The old and the new



For mounting I went with Kirkey Universal Seat Brackets and Summit Universal Dual Locking Sliding Seat Brackets. They were all bolted to the seats with carriage bolts and an additional washer on the inside.



To adapt the sliders to the stock mounting points I used 1/8th x 1.5 inch steel plates and 1 inch and 2 inch plate for the passenger’s side. The sliders had mounting bolts for mounting to the floor. The rear ones were drilled out and on the drivers side they aligned with the first of the two rear bolt holes. The front ones were left and used to bolt it to the plate. With the passengers side the inboard rear hole aligned but the width of the seat the 2 inched were needed on the out board side were required to make up the difference. Ideally a 2.25-2.5 inch plate would have been ideal.





First fitting.


Mounting of the belts was straight forward. The lap on the outboard side was bolted to the stock mounting. The inboard side required drilling and placing a nut plate on the back side of the tunnel. The sub strap was bolted through the floor up front and through a stiffening ridge and another nut plate. The shoulder straps are mounted to a John Hajny bolt in rollbar.

Final results.



I am real pleased with the seats. The only cravat is I'm 6 foot and the 16 inch seat could stand to be a bit longer in the torso. The 18 is a better fit that way but too wide. I believe for more $$$ Ultra-Shield would build one to my specifications.

Everyone asks how much, so.... Tools

chrisp

It's interesting that the sub-hole is so far forward on the Ultrashield. This may need to be addressed if you ever go racing. It's recommended that the sub strap lies against the body and both keeps the lap belt from riding up and the body from sliding under.

Nice looking install!

Riff

Great looking install Neil!

onasled

Just know that if you are doing DEs, you may not pass tech with the way you have installed these seats. I say "may" as some techs overlook many things, but there are some that don't. Aluminum seats must have at least a back support to the roll cage (bar in your situation). Aluminum seats are really not designed to bolt to the floor as in most all racing rules they need to be mounted directly to the cage in at least four points.
(I know, I'm being a *****... ). Not sure why you went with the 5 point as 6 point may become the rule soon in all clubs.

Anyway, they look good. Just know what you have and what the pros and cons are in having them.

Cory M

What club race or DE groups require aluminum seats to be mounted to the cage in four places? I don't believe I've seen that rule in the clubs that I run with, although the seat will need a back brace since it isn't FIA approved.

I have 6 point belts, but I haven't heard or read anything about 6 point becoming mandatory. Fortunately for Neil (the original poster) he can get 6 point sub-straps by Schroth that are compatible with his belts for under $20 each - so if the rules ever do change he doesn't have to buy new harnesses.

Enjoy the new seats - they will feel way better than the stock seats when you're driving hard.

chrisp

I second what onasled said about the back brace. You have a major safety issue with this one. Contact Ultrashield and ask them if the seat can be used without a seat back brace. Even if they can you want to seriously consider a seat back brace.

Keep in mind you have a 1 1/2" or 1 3/4" bar just inches from the back of your head/neck/spine. Not to get gory but if the seat back gives way then you have an immovable "clothesline" right behind you.

Cory M

Bolt on seat back braces are about $60 from the same people you bought your seat brackets from.

N_Halbert

Actully once you put a body in the seat the hole is not that far forward. The instructions with the belts indicate that the sub should bin in line with the plane of the belts coming over the torso. When the seat is pullrf forward to where I drive it is in line.

Hey Riff. Been a while. I wondered why you hadn't been to any events recently. Been missing the competition.

OnASled and Cory M - Your points are well taken. I am aware that this might be an issue. Partly that is why I used the side mount and not attempt to mount it through the base even though there would be fewer connections between the seat and the floor. I do plan to pull them and have the tracks welded to the mounting plates now that everthing has been located.

I will check with Ultra-Shield.

On the sub strap, in hind sight I don't know why I didn't get the 6pt while I was at it. I know some seats will have two seperate sub holes specifically for 6pt. The Profii II has been designed so it could be run as a 4pt.

My current configuration is fine for AutoX and DE but if I decide to race I will need to add a proper roll bar/cage, camber plates, bushings, control arms, shocks, springs, coilovers....... A back brace is the least of the potential expenses.

RedlineMan

Neil;

Compared to some of the junk I see, your instincts are WAY better than most peoples. Did you do that all yourself? You followed a very similar system to how I usually do such installs. I just did one in a Club Race 944T. I have to pull the driver seat and cange the angle. I'll post some pics when I get to it next week.

A few points for all:

1) Single subs go 10 degrees FORWARD of the imaginary spine line, NOT back snug against the body. Think about where that "snug" strap would be!! The ASM feature does mitigate the single sub deficiencies somewhat, but does not make up the advantage of a Schroth "T-bar" double sub. The best setup is non-ASM with a double sub, but it aint street legal either.

2) The Redline Roll Bar has more natural protection against rearward projection of the seat than most cage/bar designs. There is a vertical tube that sits right behind the headrest, quite by design. A seat back brace is not mandatory in any DE group I know of, but is not a bad idea if you plan to take chances. The minimal shoulder support of those seats will mitigate seat twist to some extent, but a brace still helps in the rearward direction.

3) I use the same tracks as you (JAZ Products). I also pop out the studs that come in them and bolt them to the floor. However, I use 3/16 steel instead of 1/8, as I don't feel the smaller size is nearly strong enough, PARTICULARLY if you are doing a "sandwich" type conversion bracket (track-to-plate, plate-to-floor, all bolted) like you have. I take this steel and make short "extension pads" that go under each end of the track to interface with ALL the floor holes, and then weld them to the tracks. I would urge you to reconsider this material spec.

You have done a fine job overall. If you're looking to apprentice as a fabricator, give me a shout!

N_Halbert

Yes. Using the the basic tools listed and taking my time. I'm a strong believer in KISS.Look forward to it. Yes, I followed the directions provided by Schroth Competition Instructions on the HMS Motorsport site. Here is the mounting diagram I referenced.
Mounting the sub was a case of trade offs since the seat is on tracks. I could have mounted it directly to the seat then it would always be in the correct alignment no matter who was driving or to the floor. To the seat is only as strong as the the seat mounts and the components between the floor mounts and sub mount. To the floor helps to transfer all loads to the car and keep the seat supported but is a compromise on sub angle. I doubt my fabrication skills, so elected to mount to the floor located where I normally have the seat positioned. Yes, it is a compromise for other drivers but the sub hole does a good job as acting as a guide to keep the proper alignment from the latch to the seat base.
Now, would you have an economical upgrade available? $70 - $140 seems like a lot for a fairly simple piece. I may have to save the money and put it toward a welder of my own.
Note taken. My decision was not made based on the best reasoning, "What was available at the local hardware store".

That is part of the reason I ran the plates full length between the mounting holes and plan to weld the rails to the plates, full length beads. That way the longest unsupport section is only 1.5 inches. That is the one in the pic of the passengers seat bottom above.

When I take them out to weld the tracks, I can cut out a couple of 2-3 inch tabs and have them welded on the bottom of either end of the plates to make 1/4 inch. I have plenty of left over stock.
Thanks! The next time I'm down visiting the inlaws in Vestal maybe I will take you up on that.

RedlineMan

OK... go ahead and build a back brace yourself, and when you have accumulated enough time and material to make it cost $4-500 you will see the value in spending the $150!

Overkill. Anything much past the track-to-plate bolts is rather redundant. You also risk getting into the locking holes and/or melting the locking/sliding harware inside the tracks. Weld past the bolts an inch, then maybe do a one inch weld in the center. Enough!

Not as strong as a solid piece of metal, but it will be OK if you refuse to go out and get the right stuff.

N_Halbert

Oh don't rain on my parade. That's how I'm able to justify new tools and neat stuff.

I was at HMS Motorsport today and they will let me swap the single sub for a 6pt.

If I do go with a seat back brace, what about the type of mount to the seat? I would think the style with a flat 1.5x5 inch bar could be an issue if you do go in backwards. Seeing how Al will bend and absorb the impact, the bar will end up punching you in the back and the seat will deform around it. So, is a larger triangular style better?

RedlineMan

Hey;

I'm not sure what you are looking at in terms of a brace. Most people use the Brey Krause unit. It would be tricky to get mounted to your Redline Rollbar, but I'm sure something could be done.

Anyway, here's a picture of how I do my slider mounting conversions. You can see the heavy gauge extension pads welded to the bottom of the slider.

bruinbro

Need to get the proper helmet now...





Bro