Fired Up the Sawzall - New Project Pics!
02-02-2006, 08:35 PM
#94
Race Director
Ok,
Lets focus away from Redline mans cage and look at mine.
The goal was a simple basic cage rather than some superstiff monster.
Opinions?
Note I have the same door bars on drive and passenger's side.
Yep I should add a second door bar.
Other thoughts?
Lets focus away from Redline mans cage and look at mine.
The goal was a simple basic cage rather than some superstiff monster.
Opinions?
Note I have the same door bars on drive and passenger's side.
Yep I should add a second door bar.
Other thoughts?
02-02-2006, 08:41 PM
#95
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Ahem...
I like the idea of a sill tube for a number of reasons. The "normal" way of starting a cage is to weld steel plates at the various junction points where the tubes will terminate. These areas are thus reinforced to take the forces of the tube acting on that specific area.
However, they remain disparate and isolated points. Further, even though that specific point may be reinforced well enough that the tube will stay attached, or not punch through, the forces acting on that point are still rather localized.
The sill tube unifies these distant points in a much more comprehensive fashion than isolated plates ever could, potentially absorbing and spreading loads and impacts over a much greater area. I liken it to building a tube frame inside the existing chassis. Two frames in one, or AS one, if you will.
Where it concerns dynamic forces, I see this chassis-within-a-chassis as having a positive effect on overall rigidity; complimenting and adding to the inherent stiffness of the car. Where it concerns impacts, such as at the doors, I see it not only providing active and direct protection from impacts, but passive protection as well. When this bar is impacted, the fact that it connects to the entire chassis of the car means that it will be spreading forces throughout the entire side of the car, effectively trying to drag that entire length inward as an object attempts to intrude.
It also substantially increases the effectiveness of any extra braces that one might attach to the sill, such as everyone's favorite quarter-round door bar braces on my car.
Plus... it looks cool!
I like the idea of a sill tube for a number of reasons. The "normal" way of starting a cage is to weld steel plates at the various junction points where the tubes will terminate. These areas are thus reinforced to take the forces of the tube acting on that specific area.
However, they remain disparate and isolated points. Further, even though that specific point may be reinforced well enough that the tube will stay attached, or not punch through, the forces acting on that point are still rather localized.
The sill tube unifies these distant points in a much more comprehensive fashion than isolated plates ever could, potentially absorbing and spreading loads and impacts over a much greater area. I liken it to building a tube frame inside the existing chassis. Two frames in one, or AS one, if you will.
Where it concerns dynamic forces, I see this chassis-within-a-chassis as having a positive effect on overall rigidity; complimenting and adding to the inherent stiffness of the car. Where it concerns impacts, such as at the doors, I see it not only providing active and direct protection from impacts, but passive protection as well. When this bar is impacted, the fact that it connects to the entire chassis of the car means that it will be spreading forces throughout the entire side of the car, effectively trying to drag that entire length inward as an object attempts to intrude.
It also substantially increases the effectiveness of any extra braces that one might attach to the sill, such as everyone's favorite quarter-round door bar braces on my car.
Plus... it looks cool!
02-02-2006, 08:47 PM
#96
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Joe;
Your cage was a success within the framework you stipulated. Simple. Basic. Seemingly effective.
If I had to pick on anything right off the top, it would be that your cage man did not terminate the rear braces at the same point as the side hoops on the main hoop. A nit in this case, perhaps, but not a proper convention for no reason.
Your cage was a success within the framework you stipulated. Simple. Basic. Seemingly effective.
If I had to pick on anything right off the top, it would be that your cage man did not terminate the rear braces at the same point as the side hoops on the main hoop. A nit in this case, perhaps, but not a proper convention for no reason.
02-02-2006, 08:50 PM
#97
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John, is it your lack of the cross bar that has the belts on it (like in Joe's car) that tinman944 is so vociferous about? I can see where that bar will provide substantial strength in a B pillar impact. What are your thoughts on this (like I have to ask)?
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Larry Herman
2016 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
2018 Tesla Model 3 - Electricity can be fun!
Retired Club Racer & National PCA Instructor
Past Flames:
1994 RS America Club Racer
2004 GT3 Track Car
1984 911 Carrera Club Racer
1974 914/4 2.0 Track Car
CLICK HERE to see some of my ancient racing videos.
02-02-2006, 08:53 PM
#98
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so far everyone like it for show.
Does it pass the Tech for any race organizations .
I don't think so.
Yup John I will give you it looks cool.
You build cool cages. I will continue to build safe and legal for race cages.
I have had a similar conversation with guys over helmets.
If you have ten dollar head you buy a ten dollar helmet
Does it pass the Tech for any race organizations .
I don't think so.
Yup John I will give you it looks cool.
You build cool cages. I will continue to build safe and legal for race cages.
I have had a similar conversation with guys over helmets.
If you have ten dollar head you buy a ten dollar helmet
02-02-2006, 09:28 PM
#100
On Joe's car.
Can I ask why the fiberglass seat is your drivers seat rather than the kirkey? Is you're using something like a Hans, wouldn't the Kirkey be a better choice given all the side support?
Also, your harness bar seems almost as low as mine is, what's the belt angle from your shoulders to the bar?
Thanks
Can I ask why the fiberglass seat is your drivers seat rather than the kirkey? Is you're using something like a Hans, wouldn't the Kirkey be a better choice given all the side support?
Also, your harness bar seems almost as low as mine is, what's the belt angle from your shoulders to the bar?
Thanks
02-02-2006, 09:34 PM
#101
Stupid question #102344.
John, what exactly do you mean by this for Joes cage?
If I had to pick on anything right off the top, it would be that your cage man did not terminate the rear braces at the same point as the side hoops on the main hoop. A nit in this case, perhaps, but not a proper convention for no reason.
John, what exactly do you mean by this for Joes cage?
If I had to pick on anything right off the top, it would be that your cage man did not terminate the rear braces at the same point as the side hoops on the main hoop. A nit in this case, perhaps, but not a proper convention for no reason.
02-02-2006, 09:45 PM
#102
Race Director
Originally Posted by bnewport
On Joe's car.
Can I ask why the fiberglass seat is your drivers seat rather than the kirkey? Is you're using something like a Hans, wouldn't the Kirkey be a better choice given all the side support?
Also, your harness bar seems almost as low as mine is, what's the belt angle from your shoulders to the bar?
Thanks
Can I ask why the fiberglass seat is your drivers seat rather than the kirkey? Is you're using something like a Hans, wouldn't the Kirkey be a better choice given all the side support?
Also, your harness bar seems almost as low as mine is, what's the belt angle from your shoulders to the bar?
Thanks
I am more comfortable in the sparco. Plus I am not a real fan of the Kirkey "rib crusher". So why did I get it? I got it used for a Passenger's seat for $50. Then add in a perfectly good yet expired SFI harness and you have the making of a cheap passenge's seat for the occasional ride arounds.
Plus I added this sidenet after the above pics were taken.
Yes the harness bar is a bit low. It is perfect without my HANS and was built for that. With the HANS I have to pull the seat pad to get the angles right as I can't lower the seat any more.
02-02-2006, 11:10 PM
#103
Ok
As someone trying to get something out of reading this thread (104 posts and growing) in terms of whats good and bad. Can someone tell me whose right? Would Johns cage pass inspection or not?
Thanks
As someone trying to get something out of reading this thread (104 posts and growing) in terms of whats good and bad. Can someone tell me whose right? Would Johns cage pass inspection or not?
Thanks
02-02-2006, 11:11 PM
#104
Cool Joe, thanks
So the net helps provide lateral support on the tunnel side for your Hans. Being new, I haven't seen a net inside the car like that before. You use an outside one also then? Are they Kevlar nets or Nylon?
So the net helps provide lateral support on the tunnel side for your Hans. Being new, I haven't seen a net inside the car like that before. You use an outside one also then? Are they Kevlar nets or Nylon?
02-02-2006, 11:14 PM
#105
Race Director
Originally Posted by bnewport
Stupid question #102344.
John, what exactly do you mean by this for Joes cage?
If I had to pick on anything right off the top, it would be that your cage man did not terminate the rear braces at the same point as the side hoops on the main hoop. A nit in this case, perhaps, but not a proper convention for no reason.
John, what exactly do you mean by this for Joes cage?
If I had to pick on anything right off the top, it would be that your cage man did not terminate the rear braces at the same point as the side hoops on the main hoop. A nit in this case, perhaps, but not a proper convention for no reason.
Notice how the main hoop supports tie at the same point, or node, as the upper side tubes (as well as the diagonal). This is the proper way to build a cage - multiple load paths to/from a single point. It's a bit more time consuming and expensive.