Phokaioglaukos

I don't think the certification would affect the design, unless the attempt to certify reveals a flaw that can be corrected by a redesign.

I'm sure there are political and economic issues with FIA, SFI and other certifications, yet I would not buy a helmet that did not have SNELL certification and I like it when manufacturers can convince a third party with some technical expertise that the product is useful. I note the Isaac web site FAQ says: "Does Isaac® meet SFI 38.1 performance levels? Isaac® has outperformed other products manufacturers call "SFI certified," so we expect it to perform to higher levels when we test." When they do test and gain certification I'll feel better about Isaac. For example, only Isaac seems to have an attachment point that is not firmly attached to the belts/seat/harness. That may be superior to HANS and R3, but I am not qualified to conclude that it is, or that it "works," at least not without a crash!

Is there a short FIA/HANS reference you want to point me to that will help me understand that FIA certification should not be important in a decision to purchase?

Thanks for the help.

Sanjeevan

Well, I think the major drawback and possibly the only thing preventing them from being certified is the extra things you have to do to get out of the vehicle...watch the following video which Lewis had given a link, how could you do that with gloves on, looks impossible

http://www.isaacdirect.com/html/Othe...tructions.html

But, the following video "head motion driver's side" shows a ring which could make it easier...but still you need to do two different things on top of unbuckling prior to egress...

http://www.isaacdirect.com/html/OtherPages/Videos.html

I remember a video in which this guy took a while to even unbuckle his harness, later was revealed he had broken his wrist...but even with no injuries after a high G impact, unhooking Isaac may pose major challenges, what do you guy's think?
With both Hans and R3 there is no similar issues.

JackOlsen

It is EASY to disconnect the Isaac.

Much easier than climbing out a car window with a Hans on.

Sanjeevan

Thanks,
Jeeva

Phokaioglaukos

I also note that the Isaac site suggests using adhesive to attach the mount to the helmet. I ride motorcycles and I recall quite a bit of discussion on a few e-mail lists a about painting helmets and otherwise using solvents near them. I don't recall details, but I'd sure want the manufacturer of the helmet to confirm that the Isaac adhesive would not damage the helmet. Should I use a Isaac I would use the nuts and bolts that Isaac says was so popular in the last millenium.

Geo

Don't be so confident about SFI certifications. SFI is BS. It's NOT, I repeat NOT independent. It's by and for the manufacturers. That is why we have to replace perfectly good belts every 2 years. All I can say is thank God for Snell or SFI would be screwing with us over helmets. I expect them to screw with us over suits before long.

I personally have a HANS. But I have NO doubts that the Isaac would pass the SFI certification if Isaac joined SFI. I'm not typically cynical, but after doing a lot of research when the belt issue came up, I'm terribly cynical about SFI. The certs mean very little. Personally I'd like to see a truly independent testing organization looking out for us like Snell (Snell is independent).

Geo

But they have other issues.

Let's not turn this discussion about H&N devices into another holy war.

Geo

What makes you think a helmet manufacturer will bless drilling holes in their helmet and bolting things to them?

Phokaioglaukos

Yes, I have heard that SFI is not as respected as SNELL, and SNELL has its detractors, too. That's why the FIA certification of the HANS is helpful to me. I wonder if FIA would examine Isaac, R3 and the others.

I'm sure a helmet manufacturer would not condone drilling holes in its helmets.

Nothing is easy.

Geo

Now you're getting it.

I'm curious, who do you know that is not happy with Snell? I've never in nearly 20 years of racing and another 15 of following it before that ever heard anyone say anything bad about Snell. I'm not trying to be a smartypants here. I'm truly curious.

Don't forget, the FIA isn't exactly independent either. But I trust them more than SFI.

Phokaioglaukos

Snell will not test flip-up helmets that do pass TUV and BSI approvals. The TUV will also permit some easier to use chin straps than the D-rings that you see here in the US. I'm not sure if that's DOT or Snell, though. In general, the British think their standards are more stringent than the EU's standards and both are different, and use different tests, than Snell. That said, Snell is a respected name and I would not buy a helmet that was not Snell certified.

I'd really like a head and neck restraint to be FIA, SFI and any other certifying body certified, too!

RedlineMan

I don't race, so I'm not particularly worried about someone having paid their graft money to get a sticker. It would be nice if Snell did sled testing!

My sense is that Gregg Baker is very passionate about what he is doing. He takes a lot of time to answer questions in these forums in a very level and moderate fashion, which tells me he is concerned with how his products are perceived, and that he is interested in helping enthusiasts make informed decisions based on sound information. His testing has shown excellent results, and it has arguably been a model of transparency relative to other competitors. He is also well known for taking very good care of his drivers. Might not be concrete certification, but neither can you buy that stuff. Rather priceless.

fatbillybob

Chris,

If you are in and out of others cars the HANS is still better even with only 5 points because the Isaac does not have a universal quick release system for their units. But they are working on it. When this happens the ISAAC wil make more sense for questionable safety systems in multiple cars. The big problem with SFI and ISAAC was the single release rule that ISAAC can't pass by design. The only way our is to change the 38.1 cert rules and HANS has the lock inside on that. The 38.1 looks suspiciuosly written right for HANS. Interestingly, I now have a 4 belt system on the shoulders that I have yet to test in real life. Does this mean I violate the one turn of the camlock and out rule? Nobody seems to complain about the 4 belt system of the fact that is has two more straps to entrap the driver. But it is for HANS and it is politically correct to accept anything for HANS.
By the way Chris and you instructors thanks for helpping us out. You don't get enough kudos for taking your life in the hands of some of the knucleheads that show up at the track. All I can say is pretty damn brave...

YMMV!

JackOlsen

I'm not sure I understand this. I have an Isaac, and it moves from car to car effortlessly. All that's needed is for the car in question to have a 4-point, 5-point or 6-point harness in it.

Am I doing something wrong?

RedlineMan

One of the keys to successful instructing is to gently create the notion that the driver has more to fear from the instructor than from the track. It has worked well for me!