So what happened at Putnam? 10/2-10/3 Weekend Update
10-04-2004, 11:16 AM
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So what happened at Putnam? 10/2-10/3 Weekend Update
Here’s my experience from last weekend's DE at Putnam.
First thing on Saturday, I went over and introduced myself to Jim Childs and Tim “ColorChange.” I had actually met Jim before at Mid Ohio (although I didn’t know he was a Rennlister at the time) and he graciously offered to take me out for a ride or share pointers. I would’ve taken him up on his offer, too, but his dance card looked pretty full. It seemed everyone wanted to grab a ride in his sweet 968. Thanks anyway, Jim!
Tim was also very gracious and shared his experience from the previous day with another group at Putnam. Greg Fishman was actually his instructor for the weekend so I really can’t offer a lot in that department except that his car was brutally fast and he managed to keep it on the track without much problem. And as advertised, he’s a very nice guy in person and a serious enthusiast. It was all good.
As for MY driving experience, I was slotted into the “B” group since I had zero time at Putnam but a fair number of track days (approx 40). No problem. I spent Saturday learning the track and getting blasted by every Miata, Sti or (dare I say it) bimmer in sight. It was a bit of an ego bruise but I knew it was to be expected.
Still, I was surprised that I wasn’t a little more competitive by the end of the first day. My instructor was helpful and liked what I was doing but I knew he thought I could push it a bit more. I thought I was driving pretty close to the limit but for some reason, I simply wasn't “getting” this track.
So the first thing I did Sunday morning was to seek out Mr. Fishman. I was hoping for a ride and, possibly, an opportunity to have him take the wheel of my car to see if there were any issues. He gladly agreed to both.
Well, taking a ride with Greg was a revelation! Every nanosecond was spent searching for that last bit of grip. He was tossing the car into corners, sawing his way through the sweepers and bringing down the hammer whenever there was a semblance of a straight. I was under the impression that our “modern” cars, with their gumball rubber and fancy suspension, were more tame but I felt like I was a passenger during the filming of that Ruf “Yellow Bird” tape—it was an absolute blast.
So then Greg strapped into my car for a quick shake down. I gave him the basics—suspension, tire compounds, pressures and brake pads—and we were off. I thought we’d go out nice and easy and then build up some speed--not a chance. From the second we exited the grid, it was “Yellow Bird” The Sequel! We charged into T1 in 4th gear and he kept it on the limit the whole way. We’d enter corners at ungodly speeds where I thought for sure, “Oh, here we go. This is way too fast” and somehow this “magician” was able to keep it on the surface with the hammer still planted.
I had a grin the whole time. Okay, it started out as a grimace but once I realized that ole’ Greg knew exactly what the hell he was doing, I sat back and enjoyed the ride. It was a treat to see someone extract the most out of my car and pointed to a few areas where my driving could definitely improve.
So with my newfound track knowledge, I quickly picked up the pace. I was able to apply the lines, braking, tossing and sawing that Greg had shared with me and was soon passing everyone in my group—or at least, no one was passing me anymore. My fastest lap, after about 2-1/2 hours of seat time, was 1:23:8. It’s not exactly a track record but I was happy with the progress and definitely look forward to my next visit to Putnam.
First thing on Saturday, I went over and introduced myself to Jim Childs and Tim “ColorChange.” I had actually met Jim before at Mid Ohio (although I didn’t know he was a Rennlister at the time) and he graciously offered to take me out for a ride or share pointers. I would’ve taken him up on his offer, too, but his dance card looked pretty full. It seemed everyone wanted to grab a ride in his sweet 968. Thanks anyway, Jim!
Tim was also very gracious and shared his experience from the previous day with another group at Putnam. Greg Fishman was actually his instructor for the weekend so I really can’t offer a lot in that department except that his car was brutally fast and he managed to keep it on the track without much problem. And as advertised, he’s a very nice guy in person and a serious enthusiast. It was all good.
As for MY driving experience, I was slotted into the “B” group since I had zero time at Putnam but a fair number of track days (approx 40). No problem. I spent Saturday learning the track and getting blasted by every Miata, Sti or (dare I say it) bimmer in sight. It was a bit of an ego bruise but I knew it was to be expected.
Still, I was surprised that I wasn’t a little more competitive by the end of the first day. My instructor was helpful and liked what I was doing but I knew he thought I could push it a bit more. I thought I was driving pretty close to the limit but for some reason, I simply wasn't “getting” this track.
So the first thing I did Sunday morning was to seek out Mr. Fishman. I was hoping for a ride and, possibly, an opportunity to have him take the wheel of my car to see if there were any issues. He gladly agreed to both.
Well, taking a ride with Greg was a revelation! Every nanosecond was spent searching for that last bit of grip. He was tossing the car into corners, sawing his way through the sweepers and bringing down the hammer whenever there was a semblance of a straight. I was under the impression that our “modern” cars, with their gumball rubber and fancy suspension, were more tame but I felt like I was a passenger during the filming of that Ruf “Yellow Bird” tape—it was an absolute blast.
So then Greg strapped into my car for a quick shake down. I gave him the basics—suspension, tire compounds, pressures and brake pads—and we were off. I thought we’d go out nice and easy and then build up some speed--not a chance. From the second we exited the grid, it was “Yellow Bird” The Sequel! We charged into T1 in 4th gear and he kept it on the limit the whole way. We’d enter corners at ungodly speeds where I thought for sure, “Oh, here we go. This is way too fast” and somehow this “magician” was able to keep it on the surface with the hammer still planted.
I had a grin the whole time. Okay, it started out as a grimace but once I realized that ole’ Greg knew exactly what the hell he was doing, I sat back and enjoyed the ride. It was a treat to see someone extract the most out of my car and pointed to a few areas where my driving could definitely improve.
So with my newfound track knowledge, I quickly picked up the pace. I was able to apply the lines, braking, tossing and sawing that Greg had shared with me and was soon passing everyone in my group—or at least, no one was passing me anymore. My fastest lap, after about 2-1/2 hours of seat time, was 1:23:8. It’s not exactly a track record but I was happy with the progress and definitely look forward to my next visit to Putnam.
Last edited by joey bagadonuts; 10-04-2004 at 10:16 PM.
10-04-2004, 11:38 AM
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Joey,
I had a great time this weekend and you are certainly a good driver. Thanks for letting me drive your car and I hope it helps you out. Your car was a pretty easy transistion from my car as far as the dynamics are concerned. My suggestion is to start racing and you will get that extra edge you need to go from a quick DE driver to a good club racer. David Schardt commented that your car was really quick as we passed him and his student in the "B" run session.
Your car is very nicely set up and you could really feel the AWD pull the car through the corners, that was very cool. Your car is in F stock and a good time there (outside of one ringer) is a 1:20-1:21 in that class. With Hoosiers and a bit of controlled aggression you will be competitive right off the bat.
I had a great time this weekend and you are certainly a good driver. Thanks for letting me drive your car and I hope it helps you out. Your car was a pretty easy transistion from my car as far as the dynamics are concerned. My suggestion is to start racing and you will get that extra edge you need to go from a quick DE driver to a good club racer. David Schardt commented that your car was really quick as we passed him and his student in the "B" run session.
Your car is very nicely set up and you could really feel the AWD pull the car through the corners, that was very cool. Your car is in F stock and a good time there (outside of one ringer) is a 1:20-1:21 in that class. With Hoosiers and a bit of controlled aggression you will be competitive right off the bat.
10-04-2004, 11:49 AM
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Greg,
Dont be giving Joe any ideas of club racing. We dont need anymore fast guys in F!!
Nice going Joe! I hope my track notes helped a little.
.23's are outstanding for the first time on the that track, I have been driving Putnam for 3 years and only just now got down to a high .22
Sounds like a good time was had by all!
Dont be giving Joe any ideas of club racing. We dont need anymore fast guys in F!!
Nice going Joe! I hope my track notes helped a little.
.23's are outstanding for the first time on the that track, I have been driving Putnam for 3 years and only just now got down to a high .22
Sounds like a good time was had by all!
10-04-2004, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by joey bagadonuts
My fastest lap, after about 2-1/2 hours of seat time, was 1:23:8.
10-04-2004, 12:09 PM
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Thanks, all, for the kind words and a special thanks to Eric for his track notes. They were very helpful and much appreciated.
I'm definitely giving the CR option serious consideration for next year.
I'm definitely giving the CR option serious consideration for next year.
10-04-2004, 12:29 PM
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Hey, wasn't ColorChange supposed to be there this weekend? I thought he was going to have Greg drive his car, and then show us the data overlay between himself and Greg driving...
Show me the data!
Show me the data!
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10-04-2004, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by joey bagadonuts
Well, taking a ride with Greg was a revelation! Every nanosecond was spent searching for that last bit of grip. He was tossing the car into corners, sawing his way through the sweepers and bringing down the hammer whenever there was a semblance of a straight. I was under the impression that our “modern” cars, with their gumball rubber and fancy suspension, were more tame but I felt like I was a passenger during the filming of that Ruf “Yellow Bird” tape—it was an absolute blast.
10-04-2004, 01:28 PM
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Awww DJ - didja have to?
10-04-2004, 02:05 PM
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Great story Joey! It lends a vote towards the fact that I've been considering asking someone like Manny or another FAST 964 driver to take a spin in my ride...it would be humbling to see that someone could immediately drop 2-3 seconds from MY best time...it's happened before.
The club race at VIR this past weekend was a wakeup call, one that screamed loudly, "JEFF, YOU HAVEN'T RACED YOUR PORSCHE IN OVER A YEAR...DON'T HAVE GREAT EXPECTATIONS!!" ...as I pulled off times AT LEAST 2 seconds slower than my usualy.
It was a lesson in patience, as my times jumped in 1 to 2 second increments as I went out for each practice session.
Isn't a 964 C4 in the same class as a C2?? That would be E, if you're prepared with larger brakes, chip, 3.8RS wing, etc. (such as I am) you would be in D prepared...does the C4 run in a different class??
The club race at VIR this past weekend was a wakeup call, one that screamed loudly, "JEFF, YOU HAVEN'T RACED YOUR PORSCHE IN OVER A YEAR...DON'T HAVE GREAT EXPECTATIONS!!" ...as I pulled off times AT LEAST 2 seconds slower than my usualy.
It was a lesson in patience, as my times jumped in 1 to 2 second increments as I went out for each practice session.
Isn't a 964 C4 in the same class as a C2?? That would be E, if you're prepared with larger brakes, chip, 3.8RS wing, etc. (such as I am) you would be in D prepared...does the C4 run in a different class??
10-04-2004, 02:17 PM
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Joey:
It was a pleasure to meet you although you seemed like a nice guy on line so I wasn't surprised (as I'm sure you were in meeting me).
Jim:
I only got to speak with you briefly but it was nice to meet you as well.
Fishman: or should I say Mr. Fishman:
Wow! OK, so now I know what I am aiming at. Fishman is one damn good driver. His car is set-up so well and he controls the car with throttle so well it is a real treat to ride with him. I was smiling ear to ear as we blazed around the track. Hitting you marks is one thing, hitting them in a high speed 4-wheel drift is another. Doing it lap after lap is yet another degree. Doing it offline while passing is still another. All right I’m going to stop because I’m getting depressed (I have a lot to learn).
I want to personally thank Greg for having the courage to hop in with me, especially in light of the common negative perceptions on this board. I would not want to hop into a 600hp beast with a new driver if I were him and he did it with a smile. He is also an excellent instructor. He told me what he thought, gave me ideas, was willing to allow me to experiment with other ideas, and was a pleasure to drive with. I guessed at the line the prior day and he was a huge help for me in pausing after track out in 2, staying tighter through 4, turning in early into 5, not diving into 7, staying tighter in 8, and not double apexing 9/10.
Greg suggested I let another person drive my car who ran the event – a former pro (I couldn’t tell if he was just being overly nice or he didn’t want to drive it) so I didn’t get to record his data in my car.
My slight way of thanking him was taking a few shots of him in action.
I will keep my comments of myself limited. My car is blindingly fast and a thrill to drive. I drove OK, turning low 1:20’s, broke 1:20 once. Because my car is so fast and there were pretty many cars, I didn’t get many unobstructed full laps. Had some trouble with the shortshifter (slop) and had difficulty shifting. Also had some push that I will knock out by stiffening the rear ASB one notch. The new brakes were great and I had no trouble with modulating and corner entries.
It was a pleasure to meet you although you seemed like a nice guy on line so I wasn't surprised (as I'm sure you were in meeting me).
Jim:
I only got to speak with you briefly but it was nice to meet you as well.
Fishman: or should I say Mr. Fishman:
Wow! OK, so now I know what I am aiming at. Fishman is one damn good driver. His car is set-up so well and he controls the car with throttle so well it is a real treat to ride with him. I was smiling ear to ear as we blazed around the track. Hitting you marks is one thing, hitting them in a high speed 4-wheel drift is another. Doing it lap after lap is yet another degree. Doing it offline while passing is still another. All right I’m going to stop because I’m getting depressed (I have a lot to learn).
I want to personally thank Greg for having the courage to hop in with me, especially in light of the common negative perceptions on this board. I would not want to hop into a 600hp beast with a new driver if I were him and he did it with a smile. He is also an excellent instructor. He told me what he thought, gave me ideas, was willing to allow me to experiment with other ideas, and was a pleasure to drive with. I guessed at the line the prior day and he was a huge help for me in pausing after track out in 2, staying tighter through 4, turning in early into 5, not diving into 7, staying tighter in 8, and not double apexing 9/10.
Greg suggested I let another person drive my car who ran the event – a former pro (I couldn’t tell if he was just being overly nice or he didn’t want to drive it) so I didn’t get to record his data in my car.
My slight way of thanking him was taking a few shots of him in action.
I will keep my comments of myself limited. My car is blindingly fast and a thrill to drive. I drove OK, turning low 1:20’s, broke 1:20 once. Because my car is so fast and there were pretty many cars, I didn’t get many unobstructed full laps. Had some trouble with the shortshifter (slop) and had difficulty shifting. Also had some push that I will knock out by stiffening the rear ASB one notch. The new brakes were great and I had no trouble with modulating and corner entries.
10-04-2004, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by DJ
Hey, wasn't ColorChange supposed to be there this weekend? I thought he was going to have Greg drive his car, and then show us the data overlay between himself and Greg driving...
Show me the data!
Show me the data!
DJ,
Tim didn't ask me to drive his car and as far as I know no one else did either. I did send Tim some data on my sessions in Eric in Chicago's 944S2 maybe we can make some sort of comparison between the two.
Tim's car is un-godly fast and I really think he would improve much quicker by going to a less powerful and less forgiving car. He is a good driver for his level of experience and IMO was a safe and courteous DE participant. He gave room to the slower cars and didn't pressure them to let him pass. Of course it helps when you have 700hp under your belt and you can pass people at will. I think his top speed was over 15mph faster than mine on the front straight. Tim did many of the basics well and he also made several begineer mistakes. He typically braked too late and too hard and was scrambling to find the apex. I encouraged him to slow down a bit a brake a touch early and carry more speed through the turn. He was a good student in that he listened and wanted my input. It really was a difficult car to instruct in as there was next to no time between turns to talk about setting up a turn or about what just happened. I just tried to pick the one or two turns he needed help with the most and concentrate on them. I think him riding with me helped Tim more than me riding with him.
10-04-2004, 02:37 PM
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Tim,
Thanks for the nice comments. I think in the end you probably got more instruction from riding with me vs. me driving your car. I didn't want to ask you to drive your car and since you didn't offer I just figured you decided against it, no big deal. Maybe next time when you have R compounds. It is a beast, I told people you had 700hp, kind of disappointed it only had 600hp I am not sure I would have been any quicker, or pushed that much harder, especially on tires I was not familiar with. Joey's car was so similar to mine it was easy to push pretty quickly and I was familar with the feel of the Michelin's.
Thanks for the nice comments. I think in the end you probably got more instruction from riding with me vs. me driving your car. I didn't want to ask you to drive your car and since you didn't offer I just figured you decided against it, no big deal. Maybe next time when you have R compounds. It is a beast, I told people you had 700hp, kind of disappointed it only had 600hp
I am not sure I would have been any quicker, or pushed that much harder, especially on tires I was not familiar with. Joey's car was so similar to mine it was easy to push pretty quickly and I was familar with the feel of the Michelin's.
10-04-2004, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeff Curtis
Isn't a 964 C4 in the same class as a C2?? That would be E, if you're prepared with larger brakes, chip, 3.8RS wing, etc. (such as I am) you would be in D prepared...does the C4 run in a different class??
I just looked in the rule book this morning as I wasn't sure either. It shows a C4 89-93 in F with a weight a bit over 3100lbs.
10-04-2004, 03:13 PM
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Greg: 600hp on pump gas, 640 running race gas. I hit a peak of 139.7 mph on the front straight. I did learn a ton on my ride with you. I also agree that I was extremely ragged early on (with you), and only finshied with fairly ragged by the end. I will be glad to give you a shot at my car as you certainly have the talent.