stownsen914

I've wondered how many people provide the data. I imagine some do. I wonder if it's really "myriad." Any contradiction to that post would likely be on an individual basis in any case, and it's not surprising that some may choose to keep such information to themselves. Not sure the lack of support for or disagreement with that post is very meaningful.

LuigiVampa

You know how many club racers have told me that they didn't realize they had to disclose this and now never would? A lot.

No one trusts the medical committee after this fiasco.

993944S2

Wait.. This is getting out of hand. I've done my best to bite my tongue, but here I am posting. You simply can't state "No one trusts the medical committee..." You don't know that to be fact.
I for one trust them. I have zero reason not to. They have done nothing to me that would cause me to question if I should trust them.

I am one data point that is also diagnosed with OSA. I wear a CPAP. I was asked to submit my compliance data. I did.

If you really want club racing to prosper and survive, stop posting to this thread. This thread has done zero, absolutely zero, to help club racing. I understand the reason for your fight, and have no problem with your position, but continuing it in public is not helping you, PCA, or any of us other club racers that need the series to survive and prosper.

LuigiVampa

Excuse my hyperbole when I said "no one". I question the judgment of anyone who thinks that someone driving a racecar could fall asleep because of OSA, but maybe you feel differently about that.

I'm glad you use your CPAP and I am sure everyone feels much safer to know that you submitted your data. I don't need a CPAP anymore and I do have PCA to thank for the motivation to get in shape!

As for helping PCA CR, that depends on how you look at it. I think PCA leadership is suffering from rot and has become an echo chamber and as a member I am free to voice that concern. Since when is lobbying for a change something which needs to be censured? Why would PCA be afraid to hear complaints? Are they somehow above all this? They kicked out an 89 year old man for asking questions ten years ago and many of those same people are still in leadership positions.

I've held out my hand several times, and even made an offer to provide all my information if they would just consider a rule change, and my hand has been smacked back each time. I have now complied with their rules and they are refusing to clear me. I would have brought two cars to NJMP but I guess they would rather not have me drive out of spite rather than help get this race into the black financially.

Why don't you write this same message to the PCA leadership because I think they are the ones keeping this going, not me. If they clear me to race I have nothing to complain about and the thread goes quiet.

Manifold

I think there need to be elections and term limits, at least for the national positions.

Manifold

The examining physician is signing off on the medical conditions which are disclosed and not disclosed on the medical form. If someone wants to not disclose OSA on the form, they are either deceiving the examining physician or asking the examining physician to lie on their behalf. Both of those actions would be highly unethical. If someone doesn't want to complete the form honestly, they should just not complete the form and not race with PCA.

LuigiVampa

I think you need to start by asking why people feel the need to withhold information before saying its highly unethical.

When one or two people ignore a rule they are rule breakers. When a lot of people ignore a rule there is probably something unjust about the rule.

NaroEscape

But what about those undiagnosed? Studies show that over 80% of cases of OSA go undiagnosed. Wouldn't those people be even more at risk at "falling asleep while racing" then those that are diagnosed AND treating it?
I can tell you this - I will never be diagnosed with OSA. Not because i don't believe I have it, but because I will never wear a CPAP. I am an extremely lite sleeper and can't sleep on my back. Can't imagine how I'd be able to sleep with one of those while sleeping on my side or stomach.
So am I telling the truth when I say I do not have or ever had sleep apnea?

Mahler9th

I do not know you.

Please be aware: a diagnosis of OSA does NOT automatically mean that an HCP will prescribe CPAP therapy, or any therapy at all.

And therapies for OSA include not only CPAP, but a variety of devices, surgical procedures and now of course we have an implantable device for some applications.

It is also likely that many folks that have been diagnosed with OSA, prescribed CPAP and have faithfully used their CPAP machine and realized optimal health benefits, at some point on this path felt that they could never sleep with a CPAP mask.

Safety and efficacy studies of CPAP and other therapies have included patients like these.

My wife's prescribing ENT, is an MD, Ph.D and went through college, medical school, graduate school and ENT residence as an OSA sufferer before CPAP was commercialized. He had some interesting stories to tell us!

I have a relatively new neighbor, a relatively healthy female under 35 years old. Not overweight, et cetera.

She has two small children and when I met her was suffering horrible health consequences of OSA. I helped convince her to have a sleep test and she was diagnosed with OSA. She was afraid that she might have to use CPAP because a mask might leave marks on her face. I told her that you can buy pads for the straps... pads of all kinds.

And that there are a variety of types of devices (including but not limited to masks) that can deliver the prescribed airway pressure.

In her case, a surgical procedure was the recommended treatment. She had the surgery and it was successful.

And of course you likely know that HCPs prescribe a variety of therapies, including medicines, with which patients fail to comply. The compliance rates of many therapies, including those for many chronic conditions with high morbidity and mortality risks, are well understood.

Unfortunately misconceptions about conditions like OSA and possible therapies for them are not unusual.

Mahler9th

I am not sure the concept of "justice" applies to PCA CR's requirements for health information, and at times data, including rx compliance data.

I don't think there is any requirement to provide any healthcare information or get "medically cleared" to race in Lemons.

I don't think the folks that run Lemons are any more just than those that run PCA CR.

And I suspect that those Lemons folks have heard from some of their racers that they should require more information, possibly including healthcare information.

I have only attended one Lemons race-- it was at Sears Point with my wife in 2017. As we left I jokingly told her that I thought Lemons officials should require breathalyzer tests for day two.

Manifold

I talking about the ethics of lying to the examining physician, or asking the examining physician to lie, not lying to PCA.

LuigiVampa

I'm not really talking about justice. I'm talking about human nature. If a lot of people don't see the value in a rule than the rule should be looked at.

The first time I raced with AER I was "required" to do a shot of Wild Turkey before their race class. First time I have ever sat in a race class or school with a smile on my face.

The best part was that a bunch of people failed to show because they were stuck in traffic or something like that and we were "required" to finish the remaining shots.

LuigiVampa

I never lied to my physician or asked him to lie - it was merely an oversight as he is aware that I did use a CPAP. I don't know what other people do and whether it is them or their physician.

I'm more concerned with morals rather than ethics.

Nowanker

That right there points out the ridiculous nature of their 'rule'.
I don't know the numbers, or even if that data exists, but I'll wager that the overwhelming majority of people diagnosed with OSA and prescribed a CPAP are grateful for that relief. They were all diagnosed for a reason, and the percentage diagnosed, but averse to remedy must be minute.
Somehow, the 80% undiagnosed are still managing to struggle their way through life, and around the racetrack.
Performing suboptimally, and no doubt blissfully ignorant of the dangers they pose to society.
I'll be terrified of that prospect every time I'm on the track.
(sarcasm, btw...)

Manifold

I'm not saying that you lied or asked anyone to lie. I'm talking about not disclosing OSA on the form.