Manifold

I 100% agree those goals, and I agree that there are problems in those regards, but I don’t think this thread is going to help achieve any of those goals, and it has clearly done harm to Luigi, whether he admits it or not.

NightBlueTTS

I’m willing to bet that there’s going to be more consideration from PCA bureaucrats about whether a particular interaction could go public. Maybe that will be enough to avoid some of the issues that many have experienced.

You sound fairly closeminded about how you think any individual person should interpret this overall situation, and I don’t see your efforts to “create balance” as being effective—it comes across more as pontificating.

Hopefully you continue to enjoy PCA, I prefer other organizations. And one great benefit of this thread is that others will have another datapoint to factor in as they make their own determinations.

Manifold

You're right that this thread may cause PCA National to be more careful about being abusive towards its members in the future. That would be a positive result.

I have my complaints about PCA, which I've expressed repeatedly in this thread, but I do think that, on the whole, PCA is a 'force for good' in our car world and I consider myself more a supporter of PCA than a detractor. Many of my best memories have been created through PCA experiences, and I've made many friends through PCA. If you drive a Porsche and are a car/driving enthusiast, PCA can be 'home' in the car community. It is for me.

All of that said, I've talked with a friend about forming a racing team, and don't feel inclined to race with PCA, mostly because of this thread.

winders

I want to know whose butt at PCA you are kissing here....because you have doing it for pretty much the whole thread.

Zhao

All this does is highlight how poorly managed PCA is for not seeing the big picture. They ban hammered one racer and I am sure in their little inner circle they feel like they won, but allowed a very public and very unpopular position to get completely out of control and alienate a lot of new blood from ever joining at the same time by showing exactly who is in control of PCA. A bunch of old men who don't give a crap about anything but their own personal agenda and insuring people respect their authority even if it ruins the rep of the club. Doubling down, tripling down, quadrupling down at every step that they could have changed tacks and made it go away.

You gotta pick your battles, and they chose poorly, all for absolutely zero gain on their end. This did not make racing any safer, they probably didn't protect the club from any sort of liability, and it caused the club great damage. It caused every PCA racer damage by causing new blood all over the continent to turn elsewhere and will have a ripple effect for years because the entire door to door racing sport is mostly built on word of mouth (this thread was brought up at the last PCA DE I was at among instructors, and everyone thought it was just another example of bureaucracy gone overboard like a bad HOA). Good job PCA leadership.

Luigi may be done with PCA as a punishment, but he has tons of other options for places to race so he lost virtually nothing.

Whoever is above the medical committee really dropped the ball on this one on protecting the club.

Mike Roblin

You forgot to mention one more thing, this also showed many of us just how dirty national is when you challenge them with logic and reasoning resulting in several of us here publicly proclaiming that we will be leaving PCA when our membership expires. Who knows how many more are going to silently do the same. Is that really what they hoped to do?

Had PCA leadership simply been transparent instead of being almost totally silent (except for when handing out emotional punishment) I think things could have gone much better.

Manifold

No, I haven't. I think I've complained about PCA enough in this thread to not be accused of being an agent for anyone at PCA. Luigi knows that.

I'm a PCA member and a PCA instructor. I don't have any other role in my PCA region, and the only PCA national people I know are the DE chair and safety chair (both from my region), neither of which has been involved in this fight between Luigi and PCA.

LuigiVampa

Bingo. PCA runs the show like a bunch of oligarchs beholden to no one.

New things in the works but they take time. I'm patient.

My goal is to make sure this goes wider than Rennlist to effect change. PCA is rotten at the top and needs a change. Some people have been there for decades and that is a huge part of the problem. They think they are PCA.

I didn't demand the result I wanted - all I wanted was to be heard and my position considered. From the president, to the club race chair, to the medical committee, to the audit committee, to the executive committee, to the board, they all spent 100% of their time telling me to F off and not one moment considering my position.

Zhao

True, very important point. If they're being deliberately obtuse when they're going against what seems logical and stone wall with a communication blackout with no recourse, imagine what they'd do when it is a topic with a grey area. Or IMO when it's you vs one of their buddies. That is probably the most infuriating thing to deal with because it speaks to the whole organization being rotten and/or incompetent at the top and not functioning properly. They're just volunteers and are not anymore important than anyone else in the club that volunteers, and are probably instantly replaceable if they ever stepped down.

LuigiVampa

That's the problem - they think they are.

This is George Orwell 1984 - all PCA members are equal but some are more equal than others.

Think about it - Aaron Ambrosino, our current PCA president, is running unopposed for a second term. He thinks he is doing a good job and I got suspended in part for criticizing his leadership. The truth is criticizing his leadership would imply leadership. Instead, all decisions were made by the ad hoc medical committee and the PCA general counsel. That is who is running the show. He just shrugged his shoulders and told me he couldn't do anything.

I guess leadership is sipping mai tais on the veranda of whatever location the PCA parade is held each year.

Nowanker

Stating "The emperor has no clothes on" gets you banished from the empire.

Manifold

As discussed many times in this thread, often the main reason someone will seek or take an unpaid volunteer high-level leadership position in an organization like PCA is to get the feeling of power and status, not for the purpose of service. The kinds of problems Luigi has experienced are common, and I'm doubtful that anything can be done to make the problems go away. That may sound cynical, but I think that's the reality of it.

peterp

Seems like a really bad idea.

Maybe thread lurkers and posters who use CPAP daily can comment on their experiences when not using it.

dgrobs

I’ll say it again.

This is a bad idea.

Nowanker

Why?
Should Luigi be worried that there will be more fallout with (the) PCA?
Worried that the 'Sh*t Disturber' label will taint his relationships with other groups?
Or perhaps they will mistake it that he's just cranky from lack of sleep, and should be blackballed there too...