well based on this comment I hope you’re never my instructor. You’re only the instructor because I pay the money for the events. You instruct and in turn get to drive for free on the track. Not like you don’t get anything in return. But if your student is wearing a Hans, on his or her first day, and you don’t have one then some newb is obviously smarter than you. And if you’re truly an instructor why would you play down safety. Don’t try to justify yourself. You’ve obviously made your point. Instructors way or the Highway.

 

I've also seen some complete garbage setups show up. I remember a 70s car. Bucket, harness, cage, completely gutted. The guy decided a OEM vinyl seat with a 3 point belt was good enough for the instructor. Door trim was also removed so not even a grab handle. That guy was instantly sent on his way to grab another car for the school. No person should be subjected to that bull****.

I've been in something very similar but the driver had the same level of kit, and I was the 2nd instructor to get in that car. The first one said F this, find me another student or i'm going home. I evaluated it myself and figured we weren't going to get any cornering speed out of his radial T/A tires and as long as the guy wasn't an idiot, and didn't go mach chicken we be ok at that track. The guy was very level headed so I didn't regret saying yes.

But now that I have a family I would have been the 2nd instructor that day to say F this.

 

I hate entitled people....You only get to drive because someone gives up their time to help you learn how to drive properly.

 

when I’m going 120++ down the bank of Daytona I want to be the safest I can. If I as a newbie have a harness and Hans and my instructor doesn’t then I reallly don’t need that instructor. I’ll pay more and find another one. I can’t predict when the car one length behind me looses breaks and crashes into me sending me into the wall. You and the people who have you as an “instructor” should rethink their priorities. Tracking and racing isn’t cheap. Safety is cheaper than tires and brakes and oil and fluid. And we all also just have one life.

 

As an instructor I am often confronted with a situation where I get into a car with only lap belts so I can't wear a HANS device. I could invest in a Simpson Hybrid device, which doesn't require a harness, so that is my choice.

In the OP's example it is the instructor coming without a HANS, even though they are offered equal restraints. If I forgot my HANS that day that would be on me. I think it would be the height of hubris to expect my student to downgrade in the OP's scenario.

 

this doesn’t make me entitled. Instructor should take safety first. If he or she can’t afford a hans and there’s a harness in a car don’t make the driver take it off. Stop being snarky

 

this guy gets it. Just say I don’t have my hans I’ll find you someone who does. But all these other posters playing down safety is just ridiculous.

 

and as an instructor. That’s your decision to make. But please don’t tell a driver with a legit car, seats, harness, I don’t have my hans use three points cause I told you so. That just makes this whole sport look bad.

 

these were my first few posts on rennlist. We’re not racing. There’s no checkered flag at the end. No pay out. But if the instructors are truly going to behave and speak this way to newbies because the newbs want to be safer than I’ll think again about posting and reading here. As the saying goes a few ruin it for the rest. Safety should be the number one goal. We all have families, lives, business to go home to. This is just a hobby.

 

This was my interpretation of the rules initially as well however it is not how it has been enforced at the track.

I also don't expect instructors who are kind (and brave) enough to volunteer their time to sit right seat to purchase equipment they are not using in their own car to accommodate what seems to be a rare case where a student has harnesses installed.

Thank you for providing this. While it doesn't cover my particular use case, it provides more color and demonstrates that the highest level "equal" system is what must be used by both occupants. In my situation that would mean that 3 points must be used if both drivers do not have a HANS to use with the harnesses, which has been my experience at events.

Not a decision that I would make, especially after driving 8+ hours to an event, but I admire your commitment to safety.

To be fair to the instructors, this isn't really their decision and I don't fault them at all. From my experience in the paddock it's not common for a student to have harnesses and I don't expect them all to purchase one as volunteer instructors.

Yes. Both seats have the same harness setup.


Thus the question on whether people are bringing multiple sizes. Most groups have been great about setting me up with an instructor who has a HANS, but that's not always possible.

I think it's important to recognize the risk that an instructor is taking on our behalf. They are volunteering their time and putting their life in the hands of a stranger who could be a complete lunatic of a driver for the purpose of helping us learn and progress as drivers. Instruction is worth a hell of a lot more than the $50-$100 that we pay extra as students and discounted or free track fees would not be enough to justify the risk if I put myself in their shoes.

If you forgot or didn't have a HANS to begin with and your student had a HANS or Simpson in your size, would you say you'd be willing to install posts for the weekend?

 

The old "I'll take my ball and go play somewhere else" ploy....stop being so melodramatic.

Yep...you should look in the mirror.

This HPDE thing has been going on for a very long time. Why don't you give it some time BEFORE you start telling everyone how it should be done. Not all instructors have 6 point belt systems in their cars so they may not all have HANS devices. Newbies probably are less likely to get an instructor with a HANS device than those in the more experienced run groups. You should not expect every instructor to have a HANS device. Yes, yes, you are entitled to this and that...I know....you have told us.....

 

thanks for the well thought out response. But never comprise your safety again because of an instructor. You had the right setup but your instructor didn’t have a hans. Not your fault. It’s the event organizers fault. I’ll never blame someone to try to be safer. Seems like your instructor didn’t care. And crashes happen in novice groups too. 8 hours drive is 8 hours. I’m planning a trip to charlotte in October with some buddies. They all have 6 point harness systems and half cage roll bars. Street legal cars. They run in intermediate and advanced groups. I’ll be in beginner. I’m paying for the on track insurance in turn I get to use one of my friends cars for two days. No consumable cost for me. But if an instructor tells me in October take off the harness and Hans and wear a three point with my Helmet I’ll tell them to go pound sand and won’t drive. I only have one head and brain attached to one body.

 

Get in touch with the HPDE event organizer and let them know ahead of time that you need an instructor with a HANS device. It's much easier to accommodate the request weeks in advance than the day of the event.

 

This is the correct way to do it send a notice or fill out DE registration form indicating you need an instructor with a HANS to fulfill the equal restraint national requirement and then request a confirmation from Registrar that your request was received, never down grade safety for any reason.
Rich

 

^^^^ This - and problem solved.