Annoying Miatas ruining track days
05-24-2023 | 11:11 AM
#31
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From: The Swamps of Jersey/WGI/VIR...
05-24-2023 | 11:48 AM
#32
Instructor
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From: MA
Your rifle hypothetical is off bade. Pulling in does solve the problem but most people don't because thier fragile ego gets in the way.asking the event organizer to police every car in every turn is another huge ask that's not going to happen. Or just skip hpde's and go to an open track day and give it your best shot.
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nineball (05-24-2023)
05-24-2023 | 11:51 AM
#33
Instructor
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From: MA
Because it does nothing to solve the problem.
If you have some idiot neighbour doing target practice with a rifle in his front lawn going out to the mall for a couple hours might solve the problem for you, at the moment, but does nothing for anyone else, nor does it protect you against it happening again and again.
People that hold people up for 3 laps usually end up with conga lines forming behind them, and are a problem every single session until they learn 'if you're caught you're slower, period', to watch their mirrors, and to point people by. They need to be educated so everyone can use the race track.
If you have some idiot neighbour doing target practice with a rifle in his front lawn going out to the mall for a couple hours might solve the problem for you, at the moment, but does nothing for anyone else, nor does it protect you against it happening again and again.
People that hold people up for 3 laps usually end up with conga lines forming behind them, and are a problem every single session until they learn 'if you're caught you're slower, period', to watch their mirrors, and to point people by. They need to be educated so everyone can use the race track.
Pulling in does solve the problem but most people don't because thier fragile ego gets in the way.asking the event organizer to police every car in every turn is another huge ask that's not going to happen. Or just skip hpde's and go to an open track day and give it your best shot.
05-24-2023 | 11:56 AM
#34
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From: The Swamps of Jersey/WGI/VIR...
Your rifle hypothetical is off bade. Pulling in does solve the problem but most people don't because thier fragile ego gets in the way.asking the event organizer to police every car in every turn is another huge ask that's not going to happen. Or just skip hpde's and go to an open track day and give it your best shot.
As for the open track day solution, couldn't the same Turbo S hold up the same Miata at an open track day as well?
The correct answer is to talk to the driver after the session and make sure it doesn't happen again.
Not really even a need to get the region involved.
Just the Miata driver going over to the TTS driver and telling him what happened, and do it in a nice way so the TTS driver doesn't start playing "defense".
Remember the car and the car number, and go talk to the driver after the session, right after the session. In my experience, this normally solves the problem immediately. If it doesn't, then maybe get the regions track folks involved.
People don't know what they don't know, so telling them something they don't know usually helps the driver who doesn't know what he doesn't know to now know what he didn't know then.
And be nice about it...........
05-24-2023 | 11:59 AM
#35
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From: All Ate Up With Motor
Originally Posted by Mike Roblin
Additionally there is a responsibility of the event organizers to black flag these drivers and reinforce that they need to give point by’s.
05-24-2023 | 12:00 PM
#36
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From: South Florida
That being said, I look at it differently if it’s the first novice session of the event than if it’s happening in solo run groups where drivers should know better.
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05-24-2023 | 12:50 PM
#38
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From: The Swamps of Jersey/WGI/VIR...
05-24-2023 | 02:43 PM
#40
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From: Alberta/BC
by your apology if my aunt had ***** she woul be my uncle.
Pulling in does solve the problem but most people don't because thier fragile ego gets in the way.asking the event organizer to police every car in every turn is another huge ask that's not going to happen. Or just skip hpde's and go to an open track day and give it your best shot.
Pulling in does solve the problem but most people don't because thier fragile ego gets in the way.asking the event organizer to police every car in every turn is another huge ask that's not going to happen. Or just skip hpde's and go to an open track day and give it your best shot.
I've seen what your method does, and I've seen what my method does. There are no conga lines at the HPDE event I instruct at and occasionally run tower where blue flags aren't a happy suggestion. At another event I instruct at where blue flags are a 'keep the marshalls arms in shape' exercise and never turn into black flags, conga lines happen at every event. The logic is pretty simple, inconvenience one guy breaking the rules for a bit and hopefully he smartens up, or inconvenience the entire session consistently for the whole day. Not sure why you'd take the side of the guy blocking traffic for no reason? You could have 10-20 guys in a session, and i've been stuck in sessions where there was a consistent 8+ car conga line that maybe we got one clean lap before we caught it after pulling in to the pits. It makes it very difficult to instruct a student when we're stuck in traffic or constantly pulling into the pits; it really takes away from what the point of the day is about.
Deal with the guy blocking traffic and the conga lines literally disappear from the event as it doesn't take long for the culture to change. No one likes getting black flagged and talked to at the tower in front of everyone in the pits.
Last edited by Zhao; 05-24-2023 at 02:46 PM.
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05-24-2023 | 05:13 PM
#41
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Nov 2007
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From: Ossining, NY
This problem is as old as the hills. I started my trackday career in a 914 with 90 hp, when 944 turbos were the rabbits. Some event organizers understand the challenges faced by drivers of lower powered cars, and some don't. I hated losing track time and focus by pulling in the pits because of d bags who can't handle being passed by "slower" cars, so I usually did as Zhao mentions, and it usually worked out.
Last edited by stownsen914; 05-24-2023 at 05:16 PM.
05-24-2023 | 05:40 PM
#42
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From: Orange Beach, AL
The only ego problem is the person holding up traffic. Everyone else just wants to use the track.
I've seen what your method does, and I've seen what my method does. There are no conga lines at the HPDE event I instruct at and occasionally run tower where blue flags aren't a happy suggestion. At another event I instruct at where blue flags are a 'keep the marshalls arms in shape' exercise and never turn into black flags, conga lines happen at every event. The logic is pretty simple, inconvenience one guy breaking the rules for a bit and hopefully he smartens up, or inconvenience the entire session consistently for the whole day. Not sure why you'd take the side of the guy blocking traffic for no reason? You could have 10-20 guys in a session, and i've been stuck in sessions where there was a consistent 8+ car conga line that maybe we got one clean lap before we caught it after pulling in to the pits. It makes it very difficult to instruct a student when we're stuck in traffic or constantly pulling into the pits; it really takes away from what the point of the day is about.
Deal with the guy blocking traffic and the conga lines literally disappear from the event as it doesn't take long for the culture to change. No one likes getting black flagged and talked to at the tower in front of everyone in the pits.
I've seen what your method does, and I've seen what my method does. There are no conga lines at the HPDE event I instruct at and occasionally run tower where blue flags aren't a happy suggestion. At another event I instruct at where blue flags are a 'keep the marshalls arms in shape' exercise and never turn into black flags, conga lines happen at every event. The logic is pretty simple, inconvenience one guy breaking the rules for a bit and hopefully he smartens up, or inconvenience the entire session consistently for the whole day. Not sure why you'd take the side of the guy blocking traffic for no reason? You could have 10-20 guys in a session, and i've been stuck in sessions where there was a consistent 8+ car conga line that maybe we got one clean lap before we caught it after pulling in to the pits. It makes it very difficult to instruct a student when we're stuck in traffic or constantly pulling into the pits; it really takes away from what the point of the day is about.
Deal with the guy blocking traffic and the conga lines literally disappear from the event as it doesn't take long for the culture to change. No one likes getting black flagged and talked to at the tower in front of everyone in the pits.
05-24-2023 | 05:40 PM
#43
Instructor
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 155
Likes: 55
From: MA
The only ego problem is the person holding up traffic. Everyone else just wants to use the track.
I've seen what your method does, and I've seen what my method does. There are no conga lines at the HPDE event I instruct at and occasionally run tower where blue flags aren't a happy suggestion. At another event I instruct at where blue flags are a 'keep the marshalls arms in shape' exercise and never turn into black flags, conga lines happen at every event. The logic is pretty simple, inconvenience one guy breaking the rules for a bit and hopefully he smartens up, or inconvenience the entire session consistently for the whole day. Not sure why you'd take the side of the guy blocking traffic for no reason? You could have 10-20 guys in a session, and i've been stuck in sessions where there was a consistent 8+ car conga line that maybe we got one clean lap before we caught it after pulling in to the pits. It makes it very difficult to instruct a student when we're stuck in traffic or constantly pulling into the pits; it really takes away from what the point of the day is about.
Deal with the guy blocking traffic and the conga lines literally disappear from the event as it doesn't take long for the culture to change. No one likes getting black flagged and talked to at the tower in front of everyone in the pits.
I've seen what your method does, and I've seen what my method does. There are no conga lines at the HPDE event I instruct at and occasionally run tower where blue flags aren't a happy suggestion. At another event I instruct at where blue flags are a 'keep the marshalls arms in shape' exercise and never turn into black flags, conga lines happen at every event. The logic is pretty simple, inconvenience one guy breaking the rules for a bit and hopefully he smartens up, or inconvenience the entire session consistently for the whole day. Not sure why you'd take the side of the guy blocking traffic for no reason? You could have 10-20 guys in a session, and i've been stuck in sessions where there was a consistent 8+ car conga line that maybe we got one clean lap before we caught it after pulling in to the pits. It makes it very difficult to instruct a student when we're stuck in traffic or constantly pulling into the pits; it really takes away from what the point of the day is about.
Deal with the guy blocking traffic and the conga lines literally disappear from the event as it doesn't take long for the culture to change. No one likes getting black flagged and talked to at the tower in front of everyone in the pits.
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