dgrobs

Would love to have you. VIR end of October maybe?

IIRC, your PCA National Instructor number lets you instruct with any PCA region, IIRC.

991carreradriver

Yes, several drivers respectfully challenged the assertions and assessments of the CI's. They didn't make much progress. Unfortunately, it was not the critical comments that caused the problems, it was the delivery. It is very difficult to have a learning experience when you are berated and ridiculed. For example, one might wish to discuss different lines being driven. In this case, not one driver in the Black run group "knew" the line. What really shocked me was that we had quite a few instructors driving in the Black group and they were berated worse than us mere incompetent mortals. If there is one thing I regret, it is that no one ever told us what set off this tirade. To my recollection, we didn't have one incident resulting in damage (other than mechanical) up to that point. This not my home region but have been driving with NNJR for 9 seasons. This is way out of the norm and would love to know what set them off. FWIW, I would not hesitate to drive with them again if they want me.

dgrobs

We absolutely positively 100% want you to run with us.

Let that meeting be a one off.
As far as I know, it was.

Your reply above was spot on btw.
Agree on the delivery vs content thing,
but both were pretty much atrocious as far as I’m concerned. It’s never happened before.
It won’t happen again, of that I am sure.

SFR99

Going to play devil’s advocate here since I’ve heard both perspectives in the WGI meeting incident.

People were complaining all day about bad point-bys, drivers completely missing the line, and aggressive / borderline dangerous driving. I personally heard more than a couple instructors complain about the same things after every run group. It did not come out of nowhere. The issue is that the culprits were from out of region and didn’t show up to the meeting.

Was what they said out of line? Absolutely, when it is directed at an entire run group with mostly well-behaved and safe drivers. Was it out of line to say to those individuals? Possibly, but tough to tell without having seen.

gbuff

You're making my head swell, please keep it coming
If nothing else I'd show you how NOT to drive that track!

dgrobs

I'm in 100%.

Mid-O or WGI or both. I will hold you to that.

gbuff

There is a group called MassTuning running at WGI in a couple of weeks that I have not driven with; know anything about them?
TIA.

Outlaw 06

THIS!

There are a lot of other clubs available with less onerous rules, regulations, and restrictions than PCA. Drivers have a lot of options, and they spend their money with clubs they get the most enjoyment driving with.

Sports Car Driving Association (SCDA) in New England is a case in point. SCDA features several Sports Car Club of America (SCCA) national champions as instructors. The president of SCDA, Elivan Goulart, is a nice guy with a great racing resume, including multiple national championships in several different sanctioning bodies and series. As an aside, I recently had the pleasure of co-driving with Elivan, his son, and two other drivers in an endurance race last month, where we finished 1st in class and 3rd overall. Anyway, SCDA allows self tech. Their driver progression rules, run group rules and passing rules are much less restrictive than PCA. I primarily drive with SCDA when they rent the track before SCCA race weekends, where they have run groups with full race rules for licensed race car drivers. It’s a great way to practice before race weekends.

I still enjoy driving with CVR PCA occasionally, but it’s difficult for a conventional, national, DE organization like PCA to compete with more innovative local clubs like SCDA.

gbuff

I've been driving with them for years at WGI (now in the advanced group) and Elivan is indeed a great guy. At times we were able to run the short course at the Glen which many people turn their nose up at, but once you drive it your tune will change as mine did. You will rarely, if ever, go faster on a racetrack.

NaroEscape

As a former NNJR member (21 years ago now! wow...), born and raised in NJ, and where my wife and I started out in our track driving "career"...I can certainly say that most people from outside the Northeast tend to feel a bit out of place at any NNJR, CVR, Reisentoter (sp), Metro NY, etc. event. Heck...people from outside the NE feel out of place just getting a slice of pizza up there! I never understood it at all until I moved away. Never noticed it. Its more that Northeast people are abrupt and to the point. They tell it like it is. No sugar coating. And many have relatively short tempers. I'm still like that (sometimes scares people down here...they used to say "uh oh, Bob's going Jersey on us"...) lol. Nadine says I've mellowed... I don't agree damnit!

Down here in the Southeast, people are WAY more laid back, less aggressive, take things a bit less serious.
I mean come on...when we first moved here at the grocery store a kid/worker asked if he could carry my bags to the car for me....What do I look like? I'm crippled or something? (yes...I actually said that). I think I scared him...

All kidding aside, I love NNJR and need to get up to WGI event again with the region. We'll be in NJ for Christmas visiting family...need some good Italian food!!

Back on topic...I do think the issue is more the options out there now. We have our first PCA Club Race coming up in just over a week here at CMP. Attendance is pathetic, but I keep hearing of all the conflicts going on... TBH, it's good for our business that the sport keeps growing, but it's bad for the event organizers struggling to cover their costs.

Over the next 4 weeks straight we are at the track for NASA, PCA, BMW and NASA again. All have relatively low turnout...

gbuff

Strange, I did a NASA DE/race at WGI last weekend and the race car count looked huge. All of the paddocks were full or close to it. Go figure

De Jeeper

Ran with them at Thompson. It was well organised and the run groups were well represented. They have a good drivers meeting stressing safety and doing the right things on the track. As with most private geoups the tech is self inspect.

There will probably be a wide range of cars in your group so there may be some experienced drivers in slower cars. 7 sessions should be lots of track time. Wish i could make it that weekend.

NaroEscape

well…the first is Rockingham and I don’t think a lot of people like it.
NASA SE here usually has 250-300 cars at a weekend between race, TT and HPDE. Great group.
Disappointed in the PCA race turnout.
BMW race is never huge.

911ted

During the run session(s) with all the problems, did the track workers Black Flag anybody at all?
Did they at least get a rolled up black flag pointed at somebody?
The CDI and the track crew have to act in real time to STOP bad track behavior.
Span of control on the track is the goal, a safe session just doesn't happen by itself, scrutiny from all involved or the drivers will sense that and act out as they did.

991carreradriver

Not to my knowledge and I was there. That's what makes this all so crazy. If there was a concern, call the the run group in for a meeting (I have been part of meetings like this) and speak your mind about the issues. Just mishandled, plain and simple. We all make mistakes.