Is the sport in trouble
10-18-2022, 04:46 PM
#212
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^^ Quote of the year right there!
You need to put that in your signature.
You need to put that in your signature.
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Bob Saville
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Bob Saville
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10-18-2022, 08:31 PM
#213
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10-20-2022, 02:41 AM
#214
Rennlist Member
So in this case warranty 'worked' - you paid no parts and no labor.
How did they know the car was in autocross? Did you tell them? How much of the warranty did they cut off (a year or more)? Did they claim the car was 'abused' or 'misused'? Had you tracked the car? What mods were on the car? Suspension, tune, slicks? Was the car 100% OEM? Had you had any other warranty claims?
How did they know the car was in autocross? Did you tell them? How much of the warranty did they cut off (a year or more)? Did they claim the car was 'abused' or 'misused'? Had you tracked the car? What mods were on the car? Suspension, tune, slicks? Was the car 100% OEM? Had you had any other warranty claims?
If being without my car for FOUR MONTHS and spending countless hours on phone calls and face-to-face meetings (Luckily not at Todd's hourly rate) to get this resolved is your idea of having a warranty that "worked", you are even more clueless than I imagined.
It was not an autocross, it was an HPDE.
I did not tell them, they researched the evidence on Motorsportreg.com and here on Rennlist and then tried to throw that evidence in my face when they originally denied the claim.
I had TWO YEARS remaining on the warranty. Voided entirely after the repair was completed.
No, they did not claim the car had been abused or misused, just that it had been "tracked".
There were ZERO suspension mods, tunes or slicks on the car. The car was on R888's (DOT tires) and had a Porsche Tequipment Rollbar. Aside from that, the car was 100% OEM, Inspector Dimwit.
This was the one and ONLY warranty claim.
Anything else? You are WRONG and MISINFORMED. PCNA put me through hell to get that car fixed. Customer goodwill, my a--. My only hope is that my threats may have made the results easier for those who inevitably came after me.
Last edited by Yellow996; 10-20-2022 at 03:50 AM.
10-20-2022, 08:44 AM
#216
Rennlist Member
You don't quit in your desire to be proven wrong, do you?
If being without my car for FOUR MONTHS and spending countless hours on phone calls and face-to-face meetings (Luckily not at Todd's hourly rate) to get this resolved is your idea of having a warranty that "worked", you are even more clueless than I imagined.
It was not an autocross, it was an HPDE.
I did not tell them, they researched the evidence on Motorsportreg.com and here on Rennlist and then tried to throw that evidence in my face when they originally denied the claim.
I had TWO YEARS remaining on the warranty. Voided entirely after the repair was completed.
No, they did not claim the car had been abused or misused, just that it had been "tracked".
There were ZERO suspension mods, tunes or slicks on the car. The car was on R888's (DOT tires) and had a Porsche Tequipment Rollbar. Aside from that, the car was 100% OEM, Inspector Dimwit.
This was the one and ONLY warranty claim.
Anything else? You are WRONG and MISINFORMED. PCNA put me through hell to get that car fixed. Customer goodwill, my a--. My only hope is that my threats may have made the results easier for those who inevitably came after me.
If being without my car for FOUR MONTHS and spending countless hours on phone calls and face-to-face meetings (Luckily not at Todd's hourly rate) to get this resolved is your idea of having a warranty that "worked", you are even more clueless than I imagined.
It was not an autocross, it was an HPDE.
I did not tell them, they researched the evidence on Motorsportreg.com and here on Rennlist and then tried to throw that evidence in my face when they originally denied the claim.
I had TWO YEARS remaining on the warranty. Voided entirely after the repair was completed.
No, they did not claim the car had been abused or misused, just that it had been "tracked".
There were ZERO suspension mods, tunes or slicks on the car. The car was on R888's (DOT tires) and had a Porsche Tequipment Rollbar. Aside from that, the car was 100% OEM, Inspector Dimwit.
This was the one and ONLY warranty claim.
Anything else? You are WRONG and MISINFORMED. PCNA put me through hell to get that car fixed. Customer goodwill, my a--. My only hope is that my threats may have made the results easier for those who inevitably came after me.
10-20-2022, 08:54 AM
#217
Rennlist Member
Ok, now for the other side of the spectrum. I’m at VIR in my 991.1 with a manual gearbox. On the back striaght I can’t hit 4th, odd, let’s move on to 5th and carry on, then I can’t hit 6th. By the time I got around to pit in I discovered I had lost all even numbered gears, and once in the paddock I discover I have no reverse. We pull the belly pan and check the car out, cables good, etc. This was back before my trailer when I drove my car to the track so I drive home on odd numbered gears (you look like such a douche when you have to rev 1st all the way to the top and then shift to third
). Drove striaght to Porsche in Tyson’s Corner, helmet still in the car. They took the car, got back to me in about 2 hours and asked if I wanted the to replace the clutch for only 30 minutes of labor while they swapped out my gearbox for a new one courtesy of Porsche via CPO.
My experience has been that different dealerships have different attitudes about tracking your car. I’ve also learned that different dealerships have different relationships with PCNA. So like a lot of things in large companies it’s more about relationships than it is policies.
Bonus - I did not buy the car from that dealership, but they made good on my CPO anyway - BRAVO!
). Drove striaght to Porsche in Tyson’s Corner, helmet still in the car. They took the car, got back to me in about 2 hours and asked if I wanted the to replace the clutch for only 30 minutes of labor while they swapped out my gearbox for a new one courtesy of Porsche via CPO.My experience has been that different dealerships have different attitudes about tracking your car. I’ve also learned that different dealerships have different relationships with PCNA. So like a lot of things in large companies it’s more about relationships than it is policies.
Bonus - I did not buy the car from that dealership, but they made good on my CPO anyway - BRAVO!
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10-20-2022, 08:58 AM
#218
Rennlist Member
Back to the OP: What we have seen is an increase in new drivers but a decrease in our legacy instructor core. The sport looks very healthy as so many sports cars are now within the grasps of mere mortals. Our problem has been balancing enough instructors to handle the student load. I think in the past two years every event we have had, except maybe one away game, we have had to restrict Green and/or Blue entries due to either track load or instructors. Lot’s of newbies out there.
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10-20-2022, 09:41 AM
#219
Rennlist Member
Back to the OP: What we have seen is an increase in new drivers but a decrease in our legacy instructor core. The sport looks very healthy as so many sports cars are now within the grasps of mere mortals. Our problem has been balancing enough instructors to handle the student load. I think in the past two years every event we have had, except maybe one away game, we have had to restrict Green and/or Blue entries due to either track load or instructors. Lot’s of newbies out there.
We have an event next week with a full novice group and 33 waitlisted novices. We have enough instructors to fill the track, thankfully, but capacity to fulfill demand? Not a chance.
10-20-2022, 11:33 AM
#220
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Back to the OP: What we have seen is an increase in new drivers but a decrease in our legacy instructor core. The sport looks very healthy as so many sports cars are now within the grasps of mere mortals. Our problem has been balancing enough instructors to handle the student load. I think in the past two years every event we have had, except maybe one away game, we have had to restrict Green and/or Blue entries due to either track load or instructors. Lot’s of newbies out there.
What I think we've seen this season is just an overall drop in attendance at a couple events. That also had to do with two DE's in particular that were long distance tows, and both were midweek. That hurt us.
As far as instructors go, we've been fine in that regard, and we've had a bunch of new instructors go through our program the last few years, so we have a bunch of new instructors that are definitely filling any shortage gaps there.
Been a strange season for sure. See you tonight at dropoff.....
10-20-2022, 11:49 AM
#221
Rennlist Member
Guys I can tell you now DE is in jeopardy
There seems to be a terrible trend of wrecking cars in DE and thinking is ok. The sanctioning bodies and clubs all have to come together in figure out a plan. Its an epidemic of crashes not only insured ones but uninsured as well. The incident rate is wayyyyy higher than anyone would believe or want to know.
I call it driving in a Covid Fog
People are just plainly forgetting the basics of driving on track:
1) Turning in to early running out of room on exit. Either hitting the barrier or yanking it back on from the grass and hitting the inside barrier.
2) overcooking the turn all together carrying way way too much speed for their talent. We call this running out of talent
3) cold tires - trying to go to fast way to early.
4) buying cars after Covid that are way too fast for their talent leading to way to steep a learning curve
5) way to distracted during the day at an event just not able to focus when on track
Already have insurance programs that have pulled out totally from DE , some that no longer insure daily events only annuals and some that limit tracks
The writing is on the wall. If you want the sport the thrive, we need to figure out what we can do to limit accidents. Bad things can happen beyond car damage too just like a street accident people and get hurt and worse. There was just an accident where somebody was killed. How many people will not track their cars when there's no coverage available????
I laugh at 13/13 rules in racing for bumper to bumper contact but nothing if you total a car in DE.
Just think about all the people that will not do DE if there was no insurance. Well, the writing is on the wall unless we do something now to change the way we teach and the mentality of the participant.
There are people that still feel crashing is a part of DE and if they don't lose it sometimes, they aren't pushing it hard enough. Ridicules thinking
Any good Racer knows you first have to finish a race in order to win a race. Since DE is certainly NOT a race and there are no talent scouts watching offering F1 rides to the fastest DE driver I think it should be a very easy thing to finish a DE session without crashing
Oh and by the way this issue is not just limited to DE . Street insurance companies are also getting crushed with accident frequency on the street as well. Most of your rates will be going up next year for your primary auto insurance as well.
Sorry guys but my post was longggg overdue if there is any DE promotors out there I would love to hear from you and help design ways to make our sport safer it can be done
There seems to be a terrible trend of wrecking cars in DE and thinking is ok. The sanctioning bodies and clubs all have to come together in figure out a plan. Its an epidemic of crashes not only insured ones but uninsured as well. The incident rate is wayyyyy higher than anyone would believe or want to know.
I call it driving in a Covid Fog
People are just plainly forgetting the basics of driving on track:
1) Turning in to early running out of room on exit. Either hitting the barrier or yanking it back on from the grass and hitting the inside barrier.
2) overcooking the turn all together carrying way way too much speed for their talent. We call this running out of talent
3) cold tires - trying to go to fast way to early.
4) buying cars after Covid that are way too fast for their talent leading to way to steep a learning curve
5) way to distracted during the day at an event just not able to focus when on track
Already have insurance programs that have pulled out totally from DE , some that no longer insure daily events only annuals and some that limit tracks
The writing is on the wall. If you want the sport the thrive, we need to figure out what we can do to limit accidents. Bad things can happen beyond car damage too just like a street accident people and get hurt and worse. There was just an accident where somebody was killed. How many people will not track their cars when there's no coverage available????
I laugh at 13/13 rules in racing for bumper to bumper contact but nothing if you total a car in DE.
Just think about all the people that will not do DE if there was no insurance. Well, the writing is on the wall unless we do something now to change the way we teach and the mentality of the participant.
There are people that still feel crashing is a part of DE and if they don't lose it sometimes, they aren't pushing it hard enough. Ridicules thinking
Any good Racer knows you first have to finish a race in order to win a race. Since DE is certainly NOT a race and there are no talent scouts watching offering F1 rides to the fastest DE driver I think it should be a very easy thing to finish a DE session without crashing
Oh and by the way this issue is not just limited to DE . Street insurance companies are also getting crushed with accident frequency on the street as well. Most of your rates will be going up next year for your primary auto insurance as well.
Sorry guys but my post was longggg overdue if there is any DE promotors out there I would love to hear from you and help design ways to make our sport safer it can be done
Last edited by Steve113; 10-20-2022 at 11:53 AM.
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10-20-2022, 01:14 PM
#222
Rennlist Member
Was looking at insurance rates for Barber next WE and saw they have gone up from the past. I fully expect, and hope I am wrong, a cold tire incident on the 1st session 1st lap and there is no reason for it. I cringe when I see people charge out of the pits full bore. Also I see right now the Instructor list for next WE is only 14 which is LOW.
Peter
Peter
10-20-2022, 01:50 PM
#224
Three Wheelin'
I said it in another thread, and I'll say it here. When drivers accept crashing as an expectation or "not a big deal" - it's no longer a question of "if" but rather "when" they will crash. There are myriad things that contribute to whether one has an accident. Most of them are under the driver's control. And even those that aren't, actually are at least in part. Mindset/attitude play a huge part.
10-20-2022, 02:21 PM
#225
Rennlist Member
85 Gold- we havent had a rate increase in 8 years but that will change for next year unfortunately
DTMiller- great question right now I am just talking about Physical Damage DE insurance. The rates on promotors and tracks insurance are separate liability coverages so they aren't as affected. I will say though that has incidents go up the likelihood of injury can go up and insurance issues could arise.
DTMiller- great question right now I am just talking about Physical Damage DE insurance. The rates on promotors and tracks insurance are separate liability coverages so they aren't as affected. I will say though that has incidents go up the likelihood of injury can go up and insurance issues could arise.