Hoosier S04 Cording Issues
06-01-2004, 04:31 PM
#76
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Bill,
I know how you feel, I raced at Road Atlanta and some Racer's Group GT3RS's were in my class as exhibition cars. They passed me so fast I had to check to make sure my doors were still attached.
I am going to use the SO4's for the second time this weekend at Barber and will report back with how they are holding up. Talked to my local tire guy today and he said the problems with the 285's are due to them trying to use the same steel belt as is in the 275 and that is why they are cording so bad on the outer edges, while the rest of the tire is fine. FWIW...
I know how you feel, I raced at Road Atlanta and some Racer's Group GT3RS's were in my class as exhibition cars. They passed me so fast I had to check to make sure my doors were still attached.
I am going to use the SO4's for the second time this weekend at Barber and will report back with how they are holding up. Talked to my local tire guy today and he said the problems with the 285's are due to them trying to use the same steel belt as is in the 275 and that is why they are cording so bad on the outer edges, while the rest of the tire is fine. FWIW...
06-03-2004, 10:31 PM
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Could be ALL 17" and 18" tires.....
I just had a conversation with Jeff Speer at Hoosier. Jeff is the one handling the "cording issue". They seem to be (slowly) coming to the realization that there is an issue with the recommendations for ALL the 17" and 18" tires. It seems that the track testing was done with 15" and 16". Then they extended the design concept to 17" and 18" without the same level (any??) testing. This would seem to explain why their hasn't been more buzz by scca folk since i think by and large they tend to run 16" and smaller.
I was told that they want to do the "right thing" and will make an adjustment based on the fact that the tire is part of the problem...of course the other part of the problem is that even though i followed the recommendation my car setup is also to blame
I had my front 245x35x18 S04s cord on the outside shoulder after 4 sessions, the rears didn't cord but the outside shoulder was worn. I used to get at least 12-15 sessions out of my S03s. Car is a 944 T F stock, camber was set at 2.7 degrees a tad less in the rear. Hot pressure was 46 psi front and rear....and of course i drive wicked fast....but unfortunately not fast enuf. They recommended more neg camber. I like the tire and can't seem to find an equivalent size in anything else so i may give them one more shot....at least this time i'll be paying very close attention to temps and pressures right from the start. Then again if the adjustment turns out to be inconsequential i guess i'll settle for MSPCs.
If you have had problems with Hoosier cording you should talk to Jeff Speer (574-784-3152) at Hoosier and if it doesn't work out then vote with your feet. The more folks they hear from directly the more they will realize that THEY are the ones with a problem. It may be short lived, but it felt good to vent at the responsible party instead of "listening" to you guys rant and rave. Be forewarned that you will probably get put into his VM since he is a very busy guy these days.
I was told that they want to do the "right thing" and will make an adjustment based on the fact that the tire is part of the problem...of course the other part of the problem is that even though i followed the recommendation my car setup is also to blame
I had my front 245x35x18 S04s cord on the outside shoulder after 4 sessions, the rears didn't cord but the outside shoulder was worn. I used to get at least 12-15 sessions out of my S03s. Car is a 944 T F stock, camber was set at 2.7 degrees a tad less in the rear. Hot pressure was 46 psi front and rear....and of course i drive wicked fast....but unfortunately not fast enuf. They recommended more neg camber. I like the tire and can't seem to find an equivalent size in anything else so i may give them one more shot....at least this time i'll be paying very close attention to temps and pressures right from the start. Then again if the adjustment turns out to be inconsequential i guess i'll settle for MSPCs.
If you have had problems with Hoosier cording you should talk to Jeff Speer (574-784-3152) at Hoosier and if it doesn't work out then vote with your feet. The more folks they hear from directly the more they will realize that THEY are the ones with a problem. It may be short lived, but it felt good to vent at the responsible party instead of "listening" to you guys rant and rave. Be forewarned that you will probably get put into his VM since he is a very busy guy these days.
06-04-2004, 01:26 PM
#78
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Based on how Hoosier seems to be handling this with the "you followed our recommedations, you still had problems with the tires, therefore it must be your setup, not our tire that is the problem," attitude, I don't think I'll be buying tires from them again.
I guess I can look forward to my S04s cording at my next event. They got 4 heat cycles at the RRII.
If the cording issue continues and becomes a very wide spread problem, and if they can't voluntarily do the right thing, they could end up with a class action suit against them. That would do wonders for their sales.
I guess I can look forward to my S04s cording at my next event. They got 4 heat cycles at the RRII.
If the cording issue continues and becomes a very wide spread problem, and if they can't voluntarily do the right thing, they could end up with a class action suit against them. That would do wonders for their sales.
06-04-2004, 10:44 PM
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Greg/Bill - yes, if you can believe it, I clocked 290kph (I drive a Euro 964 RS Clubsport) on the front straight and 260kph on the backstraight prior to the chicane. The car is very fast and a native weight under 2600 lbs (I have to run ballast to make 2760).
Actually, at Daytona I qualified in the Top 25 and had reached 19th by the 3rd lap but spun the car in Turn 1 trying to pass 2 C Class cars (one was Cary Bonner from my neighboring Lone Star Region in Houston). Why did my car spin? Because I couldn't use my new SO4's (due to a corded 285/18) so I had to use my spare (worn) 17" S03's and I had flat worn the tire out (but no cording!)
The in-car video of the spin was pretty cool because I missed the armco wall by 18" when car stopped -- however, I love 19 positions, hence finished well below where I should have. Just another day at the track running SO4's, eh?
Actually, at Daytona I qualified in the Top 25 and had reached 19th by the 3rd lap but spun the car in Turn 1 trying to pass 2 C Class cars (one was Cary Bonner from my neighboring Lone Star Region in Houston). Why did my car spin? Because I couldn't use my new SO4's (due to a corded 285/18) so I had to use my spare (worn) 17" S03's and I had flat worn the tire out (but no cording!)
The in-car video of the spin was pretty cool because I missed the armco wall by 18" when car stopped -- however, I love 19 positions, hence finished well below where I should have. Just another day at the track running SO4's, eh?
06-07-2004, 08:37 AM
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Report on my talk with Jeff Speer @ Hoosier
Had a long talk RE my corded rears 335/17 (1-1 1/2 hr enduro)
the facts
-2.2 camber inside corded Hot PSI 40, car weight aprox 2440 with driver, temp spread 20-25 degrees 175 inside to 150 outside, I figured this was pretty good due to long strait prior to pit in at sebring. He agreed.
(surprised him that cording was on inside)
I told him this was due to camber gain due to softer springs at Sebring
400LB frt and 600lb rear and that with the same settings with regular 600/800 springs I bet I would have corded the outside. He did suggest I go up 2-3PSI in the rear
Instructed me to return via Woodman (Hoosier wants their enginers and adjustment Mgr to see.
Very helpful and gave me the name and phone number of the guy who will handle adjustment credit.
I pointed out to Jeff that one of the great things about the old SO3's was they would take the abuse due to running on stock class cars that could not dial in optimum setup. And on GT cars like mine (full adjustment available) get about 12 good heat cycles and then run out 3/4 more days at DE's until the two inside grooves disappeared. I suggested that to save thousands of units of sales they might want to make a run of SO3's in a hurry
Jeff Speer (574-784-3152)
the facts
-2.2 camber inside corded Hot PSI 40, car weight aprox 2440 with driver, temp spread 20-25 degrees 175 inside to 150 outside, I figured this was pretty good due to long strait prior to pit in at sebring. He agreed.
(surprised him that cording was on inside)
I told him this was due to camber gain due to softer springs at Sebring
400LB frt and 600lb rear and that with the same settings with regular 600/800 springs I bet I would have corded the outside. He did suggest I go up 2-3PSI in the rear
Instructed me to return via Woodman (Hoosier wants their enginers and adjustment Mgr to see.
Very helpful and gave me the name and phone number of the guy who will handle adjustment credit.
I pointed out to Jeff that one of the great things about the old SO3's was they would take the abuse due to running on stock class cars that could not dial in optimum setup. And on GT cars like mine (full adjustment available) get about 12 good heat cycles and then run out 3/4 more days at DE's until the two inside grooves disappeared. I suggested that to save thousands of units of sales they might want to make a run of SO3's in a hurry
Jeff Speer (574-784-3152)
06-12-2004, 12:48 AM
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My 245/45/16's on my 911 gave up the ghost and chorded the outside shoulder in their 7th heat cycle (at Mid-America). That's the only way Jesse W got the win in F. Monday morning had me spewing venom into Jeff Speer's voicemail.
-Mike Quigley
-Mike Quigley
06-16-2004, 07:42 AM
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Tires returned for adjustment
I took my corded 335-17's to WG to return vis Woodman tire per Jeff Speer (Hoosier Rep 574-784-3152)
Jeff was at the track all weekend. He came to my trailer was very professional and said he thought I should get 80-100% back. He spent a lot of time checking out the grids for who was running what and I saw him around the hot pits with a pyrometer. They said they were testing some changes to the SO4 this coming week
There is no offical statement of what the problem is but he pretty much admitted that they have some issues with the molding and tread depth at the out side edge.
Jeff was at the track all weekend. He came to my trailer was very professional and said he thought I should get 80-100% back. He spent a lot of time checking out the grids for who was running what and I saw him around the hot pits with a pyrometer. They said they were testing some changes to the SO4 this coming week
There is no offical statement of what the problem is but he pretty much admitted that they have some issues with the molding and tread depth at the out side edge.
