993944S2

I just tried to order the old S03's from the tire rack. They said they do not have any and they are no longer being produced. I was looking for:

245/30ZR18 front
285/35ZR18
I use these on my 993.

I asked about MPSC. The closest they have is:
225/40ZR18
285/30ZR18

Are you guys getting the same information about the availability of the S03 and the lack of sizes for the MPSC?

Any suggestions?

Thanks;

Don

SkipSauls

I ran the tires as high as 46-47 hot, which was way too high given how greasy they felt. Dropping them down to 41-42 felt right, at least until the rears corded and the car felt like it was on oil.

The fronts, 245/45-18s, worked well the entire weekend. The rears were the 285/30-18s, which seem to be bad tires all around. The Hoosier guy didn't say anything about them not being for the rears of a 911, and seemed to think that they would be great. He said Hoosier was recommending 1-2 pounds higher pressure, which is why I ran them at 41-42 hot instead of the usual 40.

I've got a set of 275/35-18 rears that I'm going to try in a couple of weeks, but if these don't last I think I'll be done with Hoosier. There are too many brands out there for me to be loyal to one that isn't working well or providing good value.

It's not just the longevity that worries me, but also the danger that a set of corded tires presents. The tires were fine before the session, but there was some major metal fraying by the end. There should have been some sort of indication that the tires were ready to crap out instead of this unpleasant surprise.

DJF1

The 235/18 on MPSC's should be out already. Although a tad larger in diameter than the 225's the extra footprint maybe worth it for the fronts.
All this is really dissapointing. I was waiting to try the new ones as well but it seems that this is not gonna be the case right now. While I'm sure that at Hoosier they are scratching their heads trying to correct this, a statement that at least they are looking into the matter would help. Maybe PCA should ban the tire like they did with the Kumho V710 till they fix it. Maybe this way they will force their hand so to speak to correct this. A blowout for sure at the speeds we run is not something to look forward. For sure the MPSC's are not the best in terms of lap times, but if nothing else you know you can trust the tire to perform safely so that is a big factor to consider. It will also be interesting to see how the new Dunlop supersport race tire performs as well. If it is better than the MPSC and at least provides some of the longetivity then it would be a worthwhile alternative.
Having said all that I'm pretty confident that once Hoosier shorts out this the tire will be a great one to have on the track. At least I wish that they will do that sooner than later.

On a side note I want to welcome Steve Patti to the board. He is a fierce competitor and a nice guy as well from the brief encounter I have had with him the past year at TWS!

Greg Fishman

Skip,
Why don't you try the 305's. They are what a friend uses on his SWC CUp Car.

Or change to the new Michelin slicks and run in GTA.

M758

I don' t think PCA will ban the new hoosier. Hoosier is Club racing sponsor.

I hoosier did pull all their new rubber like Kumho then I'd guess PCA would ban them as well, but only after Hoosier approved.

I do think hoosier will get it right eventually.

John H

Skip, I ran the same pressures you did and had issues (edges corded and it looks like the tires just peeled of in layers). My cording issue was not a smooth wear rate type, but what looks like a delamination(?) problem. I started a thread earlier and if I can find it I will link it here. I am waiting to take them to the track this weekend at Mid-Ohio to see if the tire guys there will tell me anything.

Tire cording Q

Hank Cohn

Just as another data point. I had a set of the 285/18s cord in exactly the same place as described in all the other posts. Both rear tires corded in a way that had me looking for something that could have been rubbing the tire. There was nothing. It is my understanding that the pressure recommendations for the S04s is 48-50 PSI hot.

This sounds an awful lot like treating a symptom rather than an actual solution to me. I do believe that Hoosier must have a problem with that tire. I hope they end up doing the right thing by telling us about it before someone gets hurt and offering a discount on the next set. I have two new sets that I purchased at the Road Atlanta club race in addition to the corded set that I am keeping in the hope that Hoosier does something about it.

Hank

SkipSauls

I just spoke with the Hoosier guy from the LV race (Topless Performance) and he had just finished talking to Hoosier about the problem. They said pretty much what has been said here already, including:

- They don't recommend the 285/30-18s for rear-drive cars, with the 275/35-18 being preferred.

- If you do run them, start at 44 PSI cold and go to 48-50 PSI hot. This is far more than the "1-2 PSI higher than the S03s" statements that I've heard.

I think that they should "fix" the tires, as clearly the S03s worked just fine in these sizes. My confidence in Hoosier has dropped quite a bit as a result of this, and before now I was a real fan.

Hank Cohn

Skip and others,

I am not trying to be melodramatic but we race and DE for fun. That means Hoosier, in my opinion, is in the entertainment business and when they release a new product I, at least, expect that it has been tested on a car like mine or comes with a disclaimer stating that it has not been tested.

I fully realize that racing and driving on the track is solely my responsibility but that fact doesn’t give a vendor the right to put my health or my life in jeopardy by continuing to supply tires or other products with known defects or issues. If it is true that the 285/18s aren’t suitable to be run on rear wheel drive cars, which, by the way, is suspect, then every reseller needs to not only know that but say that to their customers. In fact the tire needs to come with a sticker that says “Don’t use this tire on the rear of a rear drive vehicle!”

It is this kind of crap that really takes the fun out of racing and DE. I would very much expect a company with the reputation of Hoosier to at all times be honest about its products, forthcoming with any new, relevant and important data related to safely using its products and rapidly responsive to a problem such as this. If there is a problem and there continues to be no response from Hoosier then shame on them!

Hank Cohn

kary993

I want to pitch in here with an experience that a few friends had with the new hoosiers. The cars are a 964 RSA and a new GT3. They were running difference sizes in the rear and I know the GT3 had 305's. Both suffered cording on the shoulders. A source explained to me that the new steel belts in the tire do not go all the way out to the edges. For some reason this causes the abnormal wear. during testing these tires and finding cording they lowered the pressures and were able to finish the weekend on the tires. If they had continued at the recommended Hoosier tire pressures they would not have made it through the weekend. I do not know the details of what pressure they lowered them to however.

Just thought I would contribute some information.

Oddjob

Latest Update:

At least two others and I are sending our corded 285s back to Hoosier for evaluation through our local track tire supplier.

The supplier has been in direct contact with Hoosier several times on this issue and has also talked with other suppliers. All possible construction/manufacturing problems are limited to the 285/18s. Any other problem with other sizes are being passed off as tire pressure and alignment issues, not a tire construction problem.

I noticed that when my 285s were dismounted, I could easily collapse the sidewall by hand. Its seems to me there is either a belt failing in the sidewall, or just not constructed properly to begin with. The supplier agreed with the lack of rigidity of the tire. He said that Hoosier had cut a new one in half (at the factory) and did not like what they saw with the belting.

The short term fix is to use the 275/18s. It sounds like Hoosier is going to hold off on sales of the 285 until they can assess if the problem is something they can correct. If not, they may discontinue the 285s all together.

Hank, I absolutely agree with your last post. This kind of headache takes all the fun out of the hobby. I had a resonably fun DE wknd that was completely wiped out when I noticed the corded tire. I dont care how much money you have, its painful to pay $1100 for tires that dont even last one full day.

Sure I like the stick and improved lap times of the newer tires, but I miss the days of the old Yoko A008Rs that worked well on tire pressures somewhere between 10 and 50 psi, camber between 0 and -4.0, never heard of heat cycling, and would last an entire season......

boostid

Guys;

Wouldn't you know it. I just picked up my set of 245/35 and 285/30/18 S04s this morning from our local Discount Tire store. They're on my hollow spokes, heat cycled and stacked in my garage awaiting the next driving event. Decided to check up on my friends at Rennlist this afternoon and ended up facing this firestorm. Just emailed Hoosier but somehow don't expect anything from them for a while.

I think I'll grab a 1 lb Hershey's chocolate bar with almonds and go to bed for a few days. It's cheaper than an $1100 set of unusable new tires in the garage, and probably safer.

Over and out;

Hal
97 TT
Arena, PSS9s, RS bars, SRDs

kary993

Hal, Take the rears back and exchange them for 275's or better yet some 305's. I am sure Discount will understand and honor your request given the issues everyone is having with these tires.

Just a thought.....

Euro RS

Hank - I agree with you 100% in that most of us are business men having some fun on the weekends with a very high dollar hobby. Sure, we like to mix it up in the corners and be competitive, but at the end of the day we're not ALMS or Porsche Cup team drivers -- no money or points at the end of the race season.

So while the Hoosier's might be 1 second faster the MPSC's, I'm not sure it would matter if I was in the hospital after a catastrophic crash -- it sure wouldn't show up on the Speed Channel that I won my class that weekend at a PCA race.

What's scary to me is the discrepancy in tire pressures being quoted by you guys. For my 964 (and most 993's I've seen) any hot pressure over 42 psi creates a very serious greasy/slippery condition on the Hoosiers. I've not heard of anyone running SO3's or SO4's near 48-50 psi and retaining good grip. My dealer told me to actually run the SO4's 1-2psi LOWER than the SO3's -- and this points up another major concern for me as I read the other threads:

THERE IS NO CONSISTENT INFORMATION BEING DISTRIBUTED BY HOOSIER TO ITS DEALERS REGARDING (1) TIRE APPLICATION (e.g. 285's unsuitable for Porsche rear mounting), OR (2) TIRE PRESSURE (e.g. hot pressure ranging from 38 - 50 psi).

This wreaks of a bunch of amatuers in the tire business.

For everyone's information, Michelin claims the 235/18 is indeed available as we speak.

Again, the SO4's (for the couple sessions they hold up) are clearly the fastest DOT tire for stock class racing -- however, that brief flash of glory isn't worth $1100 or the margin of safety risk....in my opinion.

If you guys find another alternative to MPSC's, let me know.

boostid

Kary;

Thanks for the suggestion.

I'll call Gerry at Discount (Kearny Mesa) tomorrow. I'd have to change the fronts too, as I have the all wheel drive diameter issue. 275/35s are too tall on my car with the 245/35 fronts. Need to keep them fairly close.

Would need to change to 245/40 fronts. Hoosier web site says diameters are:

245/35/18 24.5
245/40/18 25.3
275/35/18 25.3
285/30/18 24.6

You mentioned in your previous post that the GT3 car that used 305s also had the cording problem. I'm wondering if any of these S04 Hoosiers will work on the rear of our 911s.