Left foot braking
03-18-2004, 08:21 PM
#152
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Hey all;
Bob, I lied... sort of. It may be front right tire smoke, but I didn't get the car in that position by trail braking completely. At the point this photo was taken I had already floored the throttle to catch the tail after completing a chop throttle overteer maneuver to get it to actually turn. I also do a 3-2 downshift in there too.
If I'm not mistaken, this may have been the time I overcooked my entry a tad and had to actually brake before my 3-2 shift. (there was a crowd of about 30 onlookers at the fence!)
Anyone who has tried Turn 5B at Mosport with fire in their eyes will understand this whole thing!!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now... so as not to hijack the thread further, I will take the liberty of starting a new thread to flush out the discussion of Forklift's question on entry speed and throttle. See you there.
Bob, I lied... sort of. It may be front right tire smoke, but I didn't get the car in that position by trail braking completely. At the point this photo was taken I had already floored the throttle to catch the tail after completing a chop throttle overteer maneuver to get it to actually turn. I also do a 3-2 downshift in there too.
If I'm not mistaken, this may have been the time I overcooked my entry a tad and had to actually brake before my 3-2 shift. (there was a crowd of about 30 onlookers at the fence!)
Anyone who has tried Turn 5B at Mosport with fire in their eyes will understand this whole thing!!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now... so as not to hijack the thread further, I will take the liberty of starting a new thread to flush out the discussion of Forklift's question on entry speed and throttle. See you there.
03-18-2004, 09:22 PM
#153
Pro
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 536
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Couple things I have learned from some vehicle dynamics experts I have spoken to:
There is no substitute for seat time and it is the only way to learn. However, knowing the physics behind your driving can greatly accelerate the learning process. So all this BS about just driving and seat time alone is some type of ultimate salvation is ridiculous. Seat time is the hardest component to budget time for and making the most of it should be a premium concern (unless you have unlimited time).
In my opinion a DAS and an engineering background to use it gives you a huge edge on other drivers. As I have seen things, people who don't favor this approach are people who usually can't understand the data and don't know how to use it or are not interested in really going faster. Of course, some people are just out there having a good time and don't care about being ultra-fast but there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.
There is no substitute for seat time and it is the only way to learn. However, knowing the physics behind your driving can greatly accelerate the learning process. So all this BS about just driving and seat time alone is some type of ultimate salvation is ridiculous. Seat time is the hardest component to budget time for and making the most of it should be a premium concern (unless you have unlimited time).
In my opinion a DAS and an engineering background to use it gives you a huge edge on other drivers. As I have seen things, people who don't favor this approach are people who usually can't understand the data and don't know how to use it or are not interested in really going faster. Of course, some people are just out there having a good time and don't care about being ultra-fast but there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.
03-18-2004, 09:40 PM
#155
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I agree Formula;
There are distinct abilities involved here, it seems to me. You can rip the data apart and love doing it. You can even understand it. And you can be a good driver. However, if you can't transfer that data to reality by mixing it with intuition and experience, you are just playing video games, and potentially selling yourself down the river.
I agree that data derived from actual driving can give you incredible POTENTIAL insights. I don't think coming up with some sort of theoretical model is any great shakes. Where you can have some real fun is comparing different drivers, or even the same driver on a different setup or using a different style.
It has it's place, but it is still supposed to be about driving.. for fun. Given the choice, I'd rather drive, and then socialize, than stare at a laptop!
There are distinct abilities involved here, it seems to me. You can rip the data apart and love doing it. You can even understand it. And you can be a good driver. However, if you can't transfer that data to reality by mixing it with intuition and experience, you are just playing video games, and potentially selling yourself down the river.
I agree that data derived from actual driving can give you incredible POTENTIAL insights. I don't think coming up with some sort of theoretical model is any great shakes. Where you can have some real fun is comparing different drivers, or even the same driver on a different setup or using a different style.
It has it's place, but it is still supposed to be about driving.. for fun. Given the choice, I'd rather drive, and then socialize, than stare at a laptop!
03-19-2004, 09:26 AM
#156
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,819
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The fact that this car is not a beater is always on my mind and I think I have a good balance of aggressiveness and common sense. My instructor marked off 8/10ths on most of the laps and I think I am comfortable with that right now, so I won't be pushing too much harder yet. I run about in the middle of the pack in group 2, which suits me fine.
I guess the only way to go faster is to go faster. Just to do it smart and work up gradually. I approach corners with respect and no "offs" so far. I hope to keep that record. Tomorrow I will concentrate on early throttle at Summit.
I guess the only way to go faster is to go faster. Just to do it smart and work up gradually. I approach corners with respect and no "offs" so far. I hope to keep that record. Tomorrow I will concentrate on early throttle at Summit.
I can tell you that the most common mistake made by novices (of which I am and have made those mistakes) is trying to go too fast too soon. Drive at 8/10ths all the time but try to be consistent. Never miss a turn. Never be late with throttle application. Worry more about entry speed and not late braking. Always try to leave something for an out if it is needed. If you continue this theory, you will become faster. As your skills improve you will get faster while still keeping it safe. Of course all of this is for DE where there is no reward for winning. In racing all bets are off.
03-19-2004, 09:39 AM
#157
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,686
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mitch236: I agree, this is exactly what I was working on at Gingerman.
John, I agree with you. I thought you had a strange track out going there on our photo. Now I understand.
FormulaOne10: I agree also.
Jeez, Happy Friday, three in row. I'm on a roll!
Sunday, agree with what you said also. I normally allow a lot of room between me and another car. If someone won't let me by, then I'll cozy up but I'll dial it way back so I don't make an error and I can avoid his error. If he still won't move, I'll pit for a minute and go right back out.
John, I agree with you. I thought you had a strange track out going there on our photo. Now I understand.
FormulaOne10: I agree also.
Jeez, Happy Friday, three in row. I'm on a roll!
Sunday, agree with what you said also. I normally allow a lot of room between me and another car. If someone won't let me by, then I'll cozy up but I'll dial it way back so I don't make an error and I can avoid his error. If he still won't move, I'll pit for a minute and go right back out.
03-20-2004, 08:28 PM
#158
Pro
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 536
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mike, I am actually a student at the University of Illinois and while I don't personally know Professor Metz (I believe he is General Engineering but I' mechanical), I know Professor White (he was a Porsche and *I believe* RUF consultant) and have had some lectures by Professors Dantzig and Miller all over in Mechanical Engineering. Many of them work together and all of them know Professor Metz. I'm actually a little surprised he hasn't given any talks to our FSAE team considering his experience with Miliken. University of Illinois has an excellent group of vehicle dynamics people with lots of industry experience. Better yet, most of them race their cars! I have learned an incredible amount about engineering in relation to vehicle dynamics.
