Canadian Grand Prix - Great Race Ruined by Stewards
06-13-2019, 08:33 PM
#136
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by Coochas
Well this will go on for another 10 pages but the bottom line is that F1 has become a joke,....a very boring joke.
06-13-2019, 08:38 PM
#137
06-13-2019, 08:43 PM
#138
Addict
Rennlist Member
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THIS.....is probably truest point of these 10 pages....
I think the penalty could have gone either way, but stewards deciding a race sucks. Probably should have just "let them race" in the end....
But if it had to happen, I'm giddy as hell that it happened to Seb.
Multi 21 - M*****F***er.
I think the penalty could have gone either way, but stewards deciding a race sucks. Probably should have just "let them race" in the end....
But if it had to happen, I'm giddy as hell that it happened to Seb.
Multi 21 - M*****F***er.
06-13-2019, 08:45 PM
#139
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by Paul Solk
The whole incident only happened because Seb had track insurance so he drove more aggressively.... NOW you can /thread LOL
06-13-2019, 08:59 PM
#140
Rennlist Member
06-13-2019, 10:01 PM
#141
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At the end of the day, I believe that's what 95% of the people are upset about (Bold part above). Finally, we were all invested in a race where the almighty Mercedes was challenged and you had 2 guys with 9 world championships between them going at it. YOU KNEW Lewis was going to make his move at some point and there would be fireworks, but after the announcement of the investigation followed by the ruling, Lewis smartly just sat back so the last 20 laps was basically all for naught continuing the tradition of the processional race or more accurately exhibition of fast cars going in circles.
06-15-2019, 12:06 PM
#143
Rennlist Member
More footage with helmet shots:
http://www.espn.co.uk/video/clip?id=26973091
http://www.espn.co.uk/video/clip?id=26973091
06-15-2019, 01:46 PM
#144
Originally Posted by Paul Solk
So stop blaming everyone else and just lay the blame squarely where it belongs. Seb. Without his initial mistake none of us are here discussing anything but Ferrari's return to form going 1 and 3 and finally breaking the Mercedes 1,2 run... Once again though, it was a self inflicted mistake...
06-15-2019, 04:59 PM
#145
Burning Brakes
Vettel missed the corner, crossed track limits, and impeded a following driver (Hamilton), either unintentionally or intentionally.
It's the whole of that sentence, and not just the last word of the sentence, that created the situation earning Vettel a penalty.
You're all focusing on the wrong things. Read the F1 Sporting Regulations.
It's the whole of that sentence, and not just the last word of the sentence, that created the situation earning Vettel a penalty.
You're all focusing on the wrong things. Read the F1 Sporting Regulations.
06-15-2019, 05:27 PM
#146
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Vettel missed the corner, crossed track limits, and impeded a following driver (Hamilton), either unintentionally or intentionally.
It's the whole of that sentence, and not just the last word of the sentence, that created the situation earning Vettel a penalty.
You're all focusing on the wrong things. Read the F1 Sporting Regulations.
It's the whole of that sentence, and not just the last word of the sentence, that created the situation earning Vettel a penalty.
You're all focusing on the wrong things. Read the F1 Sporting Regulations.
Things happened quickly and the drivers reacted based on instinct, so no real value in speculating about intentions.
06-15-2019, 06:56 PM
#147
Rennlist Member
Vettel missed the corner, crossed track limits, and impeded a following driver (Hamilton), either unintentionally or intentionally.
It's the whole of that sentence, and not just the last word of the sentence, that created the situation earning Vettel a penalty.
You're all focusing on the wrong things. Read the F1 Sporting Regulations.
It's the whole of that sentence, and not just the last word of the sentence, that created the situation earning Vettel a penalty.
You're all focusing on the wrong things. Read the F1 Sporting Regulations.
That is why a huge majority of actual professional and amateur racers believe the penalty was wrong... PHYSICS.
PS how many times did Hamilton lock up his brakes in the hairpin with no one pressuring him? Is that a mistake? Of course . Racing is all about being on the edge and surviving mistakes to get the the black and white flag first,
If you want mistake free racing Im sure there is a robot league on the horizon... not my cup of tea.
06-15-2019, 10:43 PM
#148
Burning Brakes
The Driving Infringements section includes the following elements -
"Hindering another driver"
"Impeding another driver"
"Impeding another driver dangerously or with apparent intent"
The first - "hindering" - a violation of ISC Appendix L, carries a 5 or 10 sec time penalty, or a drive-through, or a 10 sec stop & go.
The second - "impeding" - a violation of the F1 Sporting Regulations Article 31.6, carries an in-race penalty of a 5 or 10 sec time penalty, or a drive-through.
The third - "impeding dangerously or with apparent intent" - also SR Article 31.6, carries an in-race penalty of a drive-through or a 10 sec stop & go.
The "Leaving the track" section has only three elements:
"Leaving the track and gaining an advantage"
"Leaving the track and rejoining unsafely"
"Leaving the track without justifiable reason"
All are considered violations of the F1 Sporting Regulations Article 27.3. All carry the same penalty for occurrences during race sessions - 5 or 10 sec time penalty, or a drive-through penalty.These are the regulations were agreed-to by the F1 teams before the start of the 2019 season.
In the FIA stewarding world, every player I know looked at that incident, as it happened, and said "OK...by F1 rules, Vettel's gotta give that position back, or he's going to get a penalty."
That is why a huge majority of actual professional and amateur racers believe the penalty was wrong... PHYSICS.
I'm totally OK with the fact that a huge majority of actual professional and amateur racers think it's wrong. A huge majority of professional and amateur racers don't even understand the rules that they race under (I have plenty of experience dealing with that) in their own series.
Last edited by Professor Helmüt Tester; 06-15-2019 at 11:28 PM. Reason: Clarity, which is short supply.
06-16-2019, 07:59 AM
#149
Rennlist Member
Your statement re: "intent" lacks specific foundation. The 2019 F1 Penalty Table is fairly specific -
The Driving Infringements section includes the following elements -
"Hindering another driver"
"Impeding another driver"
"Impeding another driver dangerously or with apparent intent"
The first - "hindering" - a violation of ISC Appendix L, carries a 5 or 10 sec time penalty, or a drive-through, or a 10 sec stop & go.
The second - "impeding" - a violation of the F1 Sporting Regulations Article 31.6, carries an in-race penalty of a 5 or 10 sec time penalty, or a drive-through.
The third - "impeding dangerously or with apparent intent" - also SR Article 31.6, carries an in-race penalty of a drive-through or a 10 sec stop & go.
The "Leaving the track" section has only three elements:
"Leaving the track and gaining an advantage"
"Leaving the track and rejoining unsafely"
"Leaving the track without justifiable reason"
All are considered violations of the F1 Sporting Regulations Article 27.3. All carry the same penalty for occurrences during race sessions - 5 or 10 sec time penalty, or a drive-through penalty.These are the regulations were agreed-to by the F1 teams before the start of the 2019 season.
In the FIA stewarding world, every player I know looked at that incident, as it happened, and said "OK...by F1 rules, Vettel's gotta give that position back, or he's going to get a penalty."
It's not a popularity contest.
I'm totally OK with the fact that a huge majority of actual professional and amateur racers think it's wrong. A huge majority of professional and amateur racers don't even understand the rules that they race under (I have plenty of experience dealing with that) in their own series.
The Driving Infringements section includes the following elements -
"Hindering another driver"
"Impeding another driver"
"Impeding another driver dangerously or with apparent intent"
The first - "hindering" - a violation of ISC Appendix L, carries a 5 or 10 sec time penalty, or a drive-through, or a 10 sec stop & go.
The second - "impeding" - a violation of the F1 Sporting Regulations Article 31.6, carries an in-race penalty of a 5 or 10 sec time penalty, or a drive-through.
The third - "impeding dangerously or with apparent intent" - also SR Article 31.6, carries an in-race penalty of a drive-through or a 10 sec stop & go.
The "Leaving the track" section has only three elements:
"Leaving the track and gaining an advantage"
"Leaving the track and rejoining unsafely"
"Leaving the track without justifiable reason"
All are considered violations of the F1 Sporting Regulations Article 27.3. All carry the same penalty for occurrences during race sessions - 5 or 10 sec time penalty, or a drive-through penalty.These are the regulations were agreed-to by the F1 teams before the start of the 2019 season.
In the FIA stewarding world, every player I know looked at that incident, as it happened, and said "OK...by F1 rules, Vettel's gotta give that position back, or he's going to get a penalty."
It's not a popularity contest.
I'm totally OK with the fact that a huge majority of actual professional and amateur racers think it's wrong. A huge majority of professional and amateur racers don't even understand the rules that they race under (I have plenty of experience dealing with that) in their own series.
So based on your analysis he should have received at least 10 more seconds of penalties.
Good luck with that.
A far as opinions, there are very few actual truths in this small world professor and the laws of physics are are about as close to truth as we get.
This will be my final comment on the issue,
Cheers
06-16-2019, 08:18 AM
#150
Rennlist Member
Make it stop