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06-30-2019, 07:23 PM
#151
Race Car
All good points. Max is a top tier driver because he punches above his weight. As good as Hamilton is, his car has been so superior, it's hard to judge how good he really is - I'll give Vettel as an example... EVERYONE thought Vettel was the $hit when he was with Red Bull. Gets into a Ferrari and he's not so great after all. If you can LAP your teammate in the same car, even after a very bad start, you are VERY GOOD!
Your point about the Japanese is on point as they are very prideful. Alonso treated them poorly and soon McLaren didn't have them as an engine supplier and he was not welcomed at Red Bull when a seat opened up - Alonso's "me only" persona aside. The Japanese will bend over backwards if you show them respect and give this is their 1st GP win in a long time. (I'm not sure if this is the first GP win since Jenson Button won 10 years ago) in the Brawn?)
Max would do well to see how the 2021 regulations shake out before jumping ship.
Finally, we saw the Achilies heal of the Mercedes..... heat... as they had to open up the body work for cooling and their aero advantage coupled with their power unit muscle was negated.
Your point about the Japanese is on point as they are very prideful. Alonso treated them poorly and soon McLaren didn't have them as an engine supplier and he was not welcomed at Red Bull when a seat opened up - Alonso's "me only" persona aside. The Japanese will bend over backwards if you show them respect and give this is their 1st GP win in a long time. (I'm not sure if this is the first GP win since Jenson Button won 10 years ago) in the Brawn?)
Max would do well to see how the 2021 regulations shake out before jumping ship.
Finally, we saw the Achilies heal of the Mercedes..... heat... as they had to open up the body work for cooling and their aero advantage coupled with their power unit muscle was negated.
The track this weekend was est. 2500 feet above sea level not including elevation changes of the track itself...?
That sound right...?
T
06-30-2019, 07:39 PM
#152
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Was gonna make a note to go back and google map the races thus far, because I'm wondering whether it may have been elevation that hurt the Merc...?
The track this weekend was est. 2500 feet above sea level not including elevation changes of the track itself...?
That sound right...?
T
The track this weekend was est. 2500 feet above sea level not including elevation changes of the track itself...?
That sound right...?
T
07-01-2019, 10:39 AM
#153
All good points. Max is a top tier driver because he punches above his weight. As good as Hamilton is, his car has been so superior, it's hard to judge how good he really is - I'll give Vettel as an example... EVERYONE thought Vettel was the $hit when he was with Red Bull. Gets into a Ferrari and he's not so great after all. If you can LAP your teammate in the same car, even after a very bad start, you are VERY GOOD!
Your point about the Japanese is on point as they are very prideful. Alonso treated them poorly and soon McLaren didn't have them as an engine supplier and he was not welcomed at Red Bull when a seat opened up - Alonso's "me only" persona aside. The Japanese will bend over backwards if you show them respect and give this is their 1st GP win in a long time. (I'm not sure if this is the first GP win since Jenson Button won 10 years ago) in the Brawn?)
Max would do well to see how the 2021 regulations shake out before jumping ship.
Finally, we saw the Achilies heal of the Mercedes..... heat... as they had to open up the body work for cooling and their aero advantage coupled with their power unit muscle was negated.
Your point about the Japanese is on point as they are very prideful. Alonso treated them poorly and soon McLaren didn't have them as an engine supplier and he was not welcomed at Red Bull when a seat opened up - Alonso's "me only" persona aside. The Japanese will bend over backwards if you show them respect and give this is their 1st GP win in a long time. (I'm not sure if this is the first GP win since Jenson Button won 10 years ago) in the Brawn?)
Max would do well to see how the 2021 regulations shake out before jumping ship.
Finally, we saw the Achilies heal of the Mercedes..... heat... as they had to open up the body work for cooling and their aero advantage coupled with their power unit muscle was negated.
The engines had to be turned down due to overheating and they were lifting and coasting 400 Meters per lap because of the cooling issues... Both drivers were essentially asked not to use throttle downhill at points. They have known they had cooling issues since the beginning of the season apparently.
Leave it to Multi21 to turn another conversation around to Lewis though... Gee, the guy can't win with an overheating car and his motor turned down guess we don't really know how good he is... Really???
Mind you Lewis stopped, changed the nose and still almost caught VB again. Even lifting and coasting 400M per lap with a turned down motor they weren't too far off the lead pace...
07-01-2019, 11:58 AM
#154
Three Wheelin'
Redbull misses Danny Ricardo and I and I am sure Ric misses Red Bull because being the 1st driver on a mediocre team must be worse than being the 2nd driver on good team.... his gamble that Renault would delivery the good this year clearly didnt work out
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Paul Solk (07-01-2019)
07-01-2019, 12:36 PM
#155
Apparently DR got his decision making skills from Alonso...
07-01-2019, 01:24 PM
#156
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Seems to me that Danny did it for the money more than anything else (regardless of what he said in the Netflix documentary). IMO Renault way overpaid for him.
07-01-2019, 02:37 PM
#157
Aero had nothing to do with it not sure where you are getting your information.
The engines had to be turned down due to overheating and they were lifting and coasting 400 Meters per lap because of the cooling issues... Both drivers were essentially asked not to use throttle downhill at points. They have known they had cooling issues since the beginning of the season apparently.
Leave it to Multi21 to turn another conversation around to Lewis though... Gee, the guy can't win with an overheating car and his motor turned down guess we don't really know how good he is... Really???
Mind you Lewis stopped, changed the nose and still almost caught VB again. Even lifting and coasting 400M per lap with a turned down motor they weren't too far off the lead pace...
The engines had to be turned down due to overheating and they were lifting and coasting 400 Meters per lap because of the cooling issues... Both drivers were essentially asked not to use throttle downhill at points. They have known they had cooling issues since the beginning of the season apparently.
Leave it to Multi21 to turn another conversation around to Lewis though... Gee, the guy can't win with an overheating car and his motor turned down guess we don't really know how good he is... Really???
Mind you Lewis stopped, changed the nose and still almost caught VB again. Even lifting and coasting 400M per lap with a turned down motor they weren't too far off the lead pace...
07-01-2019, 03:36 PM
#158
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Aero had nothing to do with it not sure where you are getting your information.
The engines had to be turned down due to overheating and they were lifting and coasting 400 Meters per lap because of the cooling issues... Both drivers were essentially asked not to use throttle downhill at points. They have known they had cooling issues since the beginning of the season apparently.
Leave it to Multi21 to turn another conversation around to Lewis though... Gee, the guy can't win with an overheating car and his motor turned down guess we don't really know how good he is... Really???
Mind you Lewis stopped, changed the nose and still almost caught VB again. Even lifting and coasting 400M per lap with a turned down motor they weren't too far off the lead pace...
The engines had to be turned down due to overheating and they were lifting and coasting 400 Meters per lap because of the cooling issues... Both drivers were essentially asked not to use throttle downhill at points. They have known they had cooling issues since the beginning of the season apparently.
Leave it to Multi21 to turn another conversation around to Lewis though... Gee, the guy can't win with an overheating car and his motor turned down guess we don't really know how good he is... Really???
Mind you Lewis stopped, changed the nose and still almost caught VB again. Even lifting and coasting 400M per lap with a turned down motor they weren't too far off the lead pace...
Mercedes had to open up the body work because they were suffering overheating. This compromised aero efficiency on the corners and straights but not enough during qualifying as you saw LH was only .259 off Leclerc in qualifying. In race conditions however, you're not running just 1-2 laps like you are in qualifying, so the heat build up is immense and if they were to run higher revs, it creates more heat. I don't know if you picked up on the radio transmission early on in the race, but the engineers were telling LH and BOT that their rear brakes were beyond the range they wanted. This is more than likely a result of not having rear brake cooling opened up enough. Turning down the engine, coasting (just taking your foot off the throttle in an F1 car results in 1G of negative downforce with all the DF they run), would not cook the brakes.
I could go on, but you get the picture. Also, please don't listen to Toto... based on the way he praises Ferrari every week and down plays their chances you would think it's a miracle the Mercedes finish any race let alone win all but 1 so far this year.
Cheers!
07-01-2019, 03:56 PM
#159
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Paul, no offense but I'll type slowly so you understand as perhaps this is very elementary and you seem to have issues connecting the concepts,.... the aero engineers like tight bodywork for air flow and efficiency. For example, Adrian Newey is infamous for his reluctance to open up cooling passages and brake ducts on his cars as that is where their strength in design is, not the power. He has to relent to the engine/power unit engineers, however when it comes to opening up the body work so that the power unit doesn't fry. There is a constant struggle in the team as one side wants a closed body and the other an open body.
Mercedes had to open up the body work because they were suffering overheating. This compromised aero efficiency on the corners and straights but not enough during qualifying as you saw LH was only .259 off Leclerc in qualifying. In race conditions however, you're not running just 1-2 laps like you are in qualifying, so the heat build up is immense and if they were to run higher revs, it creates more heat. I don't know if you picked up on the radio transmission early on in the race, but the engineers were telling LH and BOT that their rear brakes were beyond the range they wanted. This is more than likely a result of not having rear brake cooling opened up enough. Turning down the engine, coasting (just taking your foot off the throttle in an F1 car results in 1G of negative downforce with all the DF they run), would not cook the brakes.
I could go on, but you get the picture. Also, please don't listen to Toto... based on the way he praises Ferrari every week and down plays their chances you would think it's a miracle the Mercedes finish any race let alone win all but 1 so far this year.
Cheers!
Mercedes had to open up the body work because they were suffering overheating. This compromised aero efficiency on the corners and straights but not enough during qualifying as you saw LH was only .259 off Leclerc in qualifying. In race conditions however, you're not running just 1-2 laps like you are in qualifying, so the heat build up is immense and if they were to run higher revs, it creates more heat. I don't know if you picked up on the radio transmission early on in the race, but the engineers were telling LH and BOT that their rear brakes were beyond the range they wanted. This is more than likely a result of not having rear brake cooling opened up enough. Turning down the engine, coasting (just taking your foot off the throttle in an F1 car results in 1G of negative downforce with all the DF they run), would not cook the brakes.
I could go on, but you get the picture. Also, please don't listen to Toto... based on the way he praises Ferrari every week and down plays their chances you would think it's a miracle the Mercedes finish any race let alone win all but 1 so far this year.
Cheers!
07-01-2019, 04:07 PM
#160
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LOL.. sorry too much?... it's all fun and games and I like to get a rise out of gallery. Just joking with you Paul, but beyond that line, I'm serious. Cheers.
07-01-2019, 05:19 PM
#161
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07-01-2019, 06:51 PM
#162
WRONGLY ACCUSED!
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While Red Bill is an extremely strong team going to a manufacturer has generally been a good bet for many drivers so I would say to see where Renault goes in 2020. Maybe the gave him a peak which is supposedly how Merc got Lewis.
Honda finally figured out the current formula's engine with about a season and two thirds left to go. Hope they move a little quicker when the formula changes in 2020!
07-02-2019, 11:34 AM
#163
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07-02-2019, 05:13 PM
#164
Again, you are misinterpreting the issue with the aero which ultimately was an issue with cooling. It was not that they opened up so much they lost downforce, it was that they hit a brick wall and could not open up anymore to get the cooling they required. Hence turning down the motors and lfiting and coasting. In fact the openings were quite small, the issue was even with the openings they were still forced to lift and coast for 400 Meters per lap... Not because they were losing downforce due to aero as you imply but because they had to drive to a set pace with the engine turned down due to lack of cooling... So yes, aero was an issue but only because they couldn't open it up anymore to cool the car. Had they not had to lift and coast every lap they more than had the downforce to run with the leaders...
Now as @LuigiVampa pointed out, you place the insult at the end so rather than type it out slowly for you I will give it to you in pictures and video...
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/w...lffU5v-p_X-qFM
Now as @LuigiVampa pointed out, you place the insult at the end so rather than type it out slowly for you I will give it to you in pictures and video...
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/w...lffU5v-p_X-qFM
07-02-2019, 07:50 PM
#165
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Again, you are misinterpreting the issue with the aero which ultimately was an issue with cooling. It was not that they opened up so much they lost downforce, it was that they hit a brick wall and could not open up anymore to get the cooling they required. Hence turning down the motors and lfiting and coasting. In fact the openings were quite small, the issue was even with the openings they were still forced to lift and coast for 400 Meters per lap... Not because they were losing downforce due to aero as you imply but because they had to drive to a set pace with the engine turned down due to lack of cooling... So yes, aero was an issue but only because they couldn't open it up anymore to cool the car. Had they not had to lift and coast every lap they more than had the downforce to run with the leaders...
Now as @LuigiVampa pointed out, you place the insult at the end so rather than type it out slowly for you I will give it to you in pictures and video...
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/w...lffU5v-p_X-qFM
Now as @LuigiVampa pointed out, you place the insult at the end so rather than type it out slowly for you I will give it to you in pictures and video...
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/w...lffU5v-p_X-qFM
The Merc package will be optimized again for Silverstone and they will again be leagues ahead of every other car on grid. And for the record, I'm not a fan of Hamilton, but I'm not a hater either. I'm on record as saying he'll probably go down as one of the best F1 drivers of all time but when he doesn't have the best car on grid, he looks ordinary -- just like Vettel when he doesn't have the best car on grid. Alonso, Verstappen, Ricciardo IMO are drivers that have that extra something to flatter the car. We really don't know about Hamilton because he's always had the best or one the best cars on grid every year. What he does do is take advantage of the situation he's been given and extract results.
I'm going to leave this discussion now as it seems to have run it's course.