NEW PCA Best Practices for DE (Rant!)
12-09-2018, 12:06 AM
#196
12-09-2018, 10:13 AM
#198
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Quickly off the top of my head that I have witnessed or been part of:
- I rolled my car at Limerock in a DE: totaled
- Instructor in our region was killed in a DE
- Car hit a tree and caught fire in a DE, burned to the ground
- Student lost control (instructor in car) rolled the car. Student killed, instructor in hospital
- Car lost brakes and launched over a burm into the woods at a DE: totaled
- Car lost brakes (diff track) and slammed into tire wall at a DE: totaled
- Car lost it out of a high speed turn, into tire wall in a DE: major damage
- Too fast through a turn and slammed into a concrete wall in a DE: airbags deployed and very expensive rare car totaled
I just can’t wrap my head around why we are 5 pages into a discussion about the desire for PCA (and other organizations) wanting to help keep us safe in a relatively dangerous sport we all love. To have people with $100k+ cars complain about having to buy a $500 piece of safety equipment is ludicrous.
The tire wall/armco/tree/concrete doesn’t care if your in a DE or a race. It’s just as hard and causes just as much damage.
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12-09-2018, 10:28 AM
#199
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I just can’t wrap my head around why we are 5 pages into a discussion about the desire for PCA (and other organizations) wanting to help keep us safe in a relatively dangerous sport we all love. To have people with $100k+ cars complain about having to buy a $500 piece of safety equipment is ludicrous.
12-09-2018, 10:35 AM
#200
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I just can’t wrap my head around why we are 5 pages into a discussion about the desire for PCA (and other organizations) wanting to help keep us safe in a relatively dangerous sport we all love. To have people with $100k+ cars complain about having to buy a $500 piece of safety equipment is ludicrous.
- People don't understand the benefit provided by adding the HNR to the harness, or conversely the added risk of not adding the HNR. Here's what happens without and with HNR (freeze it at 0:04 and compare the head/neck positions; head wants to go flying forward and pull off the neck with forces that can be 50g+, which is why the base of the skull fractures):
- People can be amazingly irrational when it comes to spending money. No problem spending a lot more on consumable tires that don't last long to go a bit faster in a non-competition DE, but somehow $500 for an HNR is a big deal?
- People don't like being told what to do. But DE event organizers do have a responsibility to know and tell participants what they're required to do with respect to key safety aspects. If I go skydiving for the first time or even the tenth time, I'd want experienced people telling me what to do with respect to safety, and I wouldn't want to rely on my own uninformed judgment.
Last edited by Manifold; 12-09-2018 at 11:17 AM.
12-09-2018, 10:42 AM
#201
Rennlist Member
“If harness, then HANS” rule is a no brainer and good for PCA to include it. The equal restraint rule should be changed to a more lenient rule that only prohibits the driver from having better protection than the passenger. Passenger should be free to choose any protection that’s stronger than the driver’s.
Forums like these are great for debating the PCA rule set, as it helps PCA to see what its customers (members) value and what they don’t.
Folks arguing that PCA (or any other private club or venue, in general) have no right to impose rules for THEIR OWN events should not impose any rules onto guests that they allow into their own houses. Muddy shoes, getting naked, farting, belching, dancing on the table, making fun of your fat children? Do as you wish as long as it doesn’t actually hurt anybody.
Clubs/venues choose rules, participants/customers/consumers choose if they come or not. PCA is in its full right to mandate wearing pink panties to all participants in its events, if it so decided. The market decides with its wallets/feet if it will support it or not.
Forums like these are great for debating the PCA rule set, as it helps PCA to see what its customers (members) value and what they don’t.
Folks arguing that PCA (or any other private club or venue, in general) have no right to impose rules for THEIR OWN events should not impose any rules onto guests that they allow into their own houses. Muddy shoes, getting naked, farting, belching, dancing on the table, making fun of your fat children? Do as you wish as long as it doesn’t actually hurt anybody.
Clubs/venues choose rules, participants/customers/consumers choose if they come or not. PCA is in its full right to mandate wearing pink panties to all participants in its events, if it so decided. The market decides with its wallets/feet if it will support it or not.
12-09-2018, 10:53 AM
#202
Rennlist Member
This thread is devolving into "no, my region is the most dangerous!" LOL!
996AE - PCA doesn't release the stats but I have seen many incidents with my own eyes - that is the stat I am going by. Not campfire stories. Not heard it from a friend. I've been there for far too many accidents over the years but that is what happens when you drive fast on track.
Region culture has a lot to do with it. A bunch of years ago I was driving with another region and I spun in the pouring rain doing about 40mph. It was a slow, lazy spin, and when I returned to the pits the CI started screaming at me for spinning. He was telling me they had gone the whole year without someone spinning. WHAT??!! The whole year and no one spun once? WTF are you guys doing? Parade laps?
Maybe you belong to this same region?
996AE - PCA doesn't release the stats but I have seen many incidents with my own eyes - that is the stat I am going by. Not campfire stories. Not heard it from a friend. I've been there for far too many accidents over the years but that is what happens when you drive fast on track.
Region culture has a lot to do with it. A bunch of years ago I was driving with another region and I spun in the pouring rain doing about 40mph. It was a slow, lazy spin, and when I returned to the pits the CI started screaming at me for spinning. He was telling me they had gone the whole year without someone spinning. WHAT??!! The whole year and no one spun once? WTF are you guys doing? Parade laps?
Maybe you belong to this same region?
I'm not sure why this is so surprising to some people.
12-09-2018, 11:20 AM
#203
Originally Posted by NaroEscape
[LEFT]
.
I just can't wrap my head around why we are 5 pages into a discussion about the desire for PCA (and other organizations) wanting to help keep us safe in a relatively dangerous sport we all love. To have people with $100k+ cars complain about having to buy a $500 piece of safety equipment is ludicrous.
I just can't wrap my head around why we are 5 pages into a discussion about the desire for PCA (and other organizations) wanting to help keep us safe in a relatively dangerous sport we all love. To have people with $100k+ cars complain about having to buy a $500 piece of safety equipment is ludicrous.
12-09-2018, 11:35 AM
#204
12-09-2018, 11:40 AM
#205
Rennlist Member
12-09-2018, 12:15 PM
#207
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F. Time Trial and DE passing rules (no passing is allowed in Autocross): 1. Passing zones for all groups shall be well defined at the Drivers' Meeting. All passing must be completed by the end of the passing zone as defined by the event organizer. Road courses associated with super speedways may use the super speedway turns as passing zones (turns on the portion of the track comprised of the oval section of the super speedway). There shall be no passing in any other turns except as allowed by the Expanded Passing Program. Kinks in a straight area of the track will not be considered turns unless specified by the Event Chairman. The Event Chairman shall take into consideration the areas of the track that are preferred for passing, and may restrict certain passing zones to advanced run groups. THERE WILL BE NO PASSING UNDER RED FLAG CONDITIONS. THERE IS ALSO NO PASSING UNDER YELLOW FLAG CONDITIONS EXCEPT FOR SLOW MOVING VEHICLES WHOSE DRIVERS HAVE SIGNALLED THAT THEIR VEHICLES ARE DISABLED.
Zone 8 2018 rule on passing.
ALL GEAR ALL THE TIME
Zone 8 2018 rule on passing.
ALL GEAR ALL THE TIME
12-09-2018, 12:26 PM
#208
Rennlist Member
As for the HANS RANT funny how personal some of the RL crowd is.
They way some of you rant in favor of HANS devices for DE drivers I am surprised this rule wasnt floated 10 years ago. Heck we all knew and have known that driving at speed on a race track is danerous and ALL GEAR ALL THE TIME is highly recommended.
Yet at the "Ring" where some believe in personal responsibility and choice helmets are optional.
ALL GEAR ALL THE TIME for me is my choice.
My not so elegant posts have tried to find facts supporting the stories of the few incidents ive seen vs the 10s of thousand of DE laps completed safely each year. I like facts and stats in todays hyper anecdotal world.
Taking individual freedom to choose away from Americans is something I am fundamentally opposed to.
Americas greatest generation is gone and this is something I must accept.
They way some of you rant in favor of HANS devices for DE drivers I am surprised this rule wasnt floated 10 years ago. Heck we all knew and have known that driving at speed on a race track is danerous and ALL GEAR ALL THE TIME is highly recommended.
Yet at the "Ring" where some believe in personal responsibility and choice helmets are optional.
ALL GEAR ALL THE TIME for me is my choice.
My not so elegant posts have tried to find facts supporting the stories of the few incidents ive seen vs the 10s of thousand of DE laps completed safely each year. I like facts and stats in todays hyper anecdotal world.
Taking individual freedom to choose away from Americans is something I am fundamentally opposed to.
Americas greatest generation is gone and this is something I must accept.
12-09-2018, 12:48 PM
#209
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As for the HANS RANT funny how personal some of the RL crowd is.
They way some of you rant in favor of HANS devices for DE drivers I am surprised this rule wasnt floated 10 years ago. Heck we all knew and have known that driving at speed on a race track is danerous and ALL GEAR ALL THE TIME is highly recommended.
Yet at the "Ring" where some believe in personal responsibility and choice helmets are optional.
ALL GEAR ALL THE TIME for me is my choice.
My not so elegant posts have tried to find facts supporting the stories of the few incidents ive seen vs the 10s of thousand of DE laps completed safely each year. I like facts and stats in todays hyper anecdotal world.
Taking individual freedom to choose away from Americans is something I am fundamentally opposed to.
Americas greatest generation is gone and this is something I must accept.
They way some of you rant in favor of HANS devices for DE drivers I am surprised this rule wasnt floated 10 years ago. Heck we all knew and have known that driving at speed on a race track is danerous and ALL GEAR ALL THE TIME is highly recommended.
Yet at the "Ring" where some believe in personal responsibility and choice helmets are optional.
ALL GEAR ALL THE TIME for me is my choice.
My not so elegant posts have tried to find facts supporting the stories of the few incidents ive seen vs the 10s of thousand of DE laps completed safely each year. I like facts and stats in todays hyper anecdotal world.
Taking individual freedom to choose away from Americans is something I am fundamentally opposed to.
Americas greatest generation is gone and this is something I must accept.
12-09-2018, 12:51 PM
#210
