Very sad to hear this. Condolences to all involved, and I hope the instructor makes a full recovery.

Though we don't know the details of what happened in this case, the question of the safety of the track should always be asked. Given that crashes are inevitable, why did a crash lead to FATALITY? Many tracks have substantial safety deficiencies because their safety features were selected without any real expertise, and track owners sometimes avoid bringing in such expertise because their liability could increase if they don't implement consultant recommendations. This isn't speculation, I've witnessed these issues firsthand on numerous occasions. More here:

http://bobstracks.squarespace.com/im...at-tracks.html

The fatality/injury rates can't be zero, but they can certainly be significantly lower if the proper steps are taken. IMO, DE isn't inherently unsafe overall, but that shouldn't be an excuse to not make safety improvements where we can.

 

Hope so, too.

It's speculation, but a FATALITY may have lead to a crash, IMO.

Agreed. Fully.

 

This is horrible news. condolences to the family of the driver. In these types of situations, it is not uncommon for the instructor to assist, and because of the speeds involved, not much steering input is needed to make huge corrections . (as long as the student is not fighting the assist) But, there is a factor that is often overlooked, in how the throttle is controlled. Maybe the instructor needs to have his hand on or have access to, an ignition kill switch for these types of emergencies. this wouldnt address all dangerous situations, but it might help for many of them. maybe we need the old school dual steering wheel instruction race cars. i dont know of too many flight instructors , that would ever go up in a plane with a student if he didnt have a yoke for his control as well. i dont see how this is much different than driving a car at such high speeds.
Very sad to hear, but i hope some good can come out of it to save others from this horrible outcome.

 

Tough to reach the ignition on any Porsche (other than the old school front engine water pumpers) from the right hand seat given that they're on the left side of the steering wheel...

 

I thought I read where the instructor managed to grad the steering wheel to avoid hitting another car.

That would not have been possible in this car in the time frame mentioned by PLNewman above due to it being on the left side as well as trying to avoid hitting another car at the same time.

 

I wasn't suggesting that, in this particular instance. I have done that in cars with accessible switches. Twice...

 

Was the fatality the driver or instructor? Any idea about safety devices in vehicle?

 

Post #24

 

That sucks.

This is honestly why I have been, and continue to drastically scale back my instructing over the past few years. It's just not worth it to me anymore. It's just a numbers game. If you are instructing, it means you are on track twice as much, and half that time with someone with a higher propensity for mistakes. 10 years ago I was fine with the risks, but I've paid it forward at this point and don't feel as obligated as I did back then.

 

I am going into my second year as a PCA instructor. One of the things I was taught was NEVER touch the driver's wheel.

Last fall I had a guy who started checking out on me - I would give him an instruction and it would take him time to respond. He was overwhelmed and I told him to pit. Right as that happened we were approaching the uphill at Lime Rock and he wasn't turning the wheel enough. We were definitely going to hit the wall. Without thinking I pulled the wheel and we barely made the turn - the flagger winced - that's how close it was. We pitted after that.

We spoke about what happened and I discussed it with other instructors. Off the record it appears that saving your own life, and student's life, trumps certain rules.

Funny thing is next event I had the same driver and he was completely fine.

 

^^THIS^^

Fact.

Have had that happen, too. Doubly scary... Who will you get, next time?

 

 

Grab the wheel whenever it makes sense re. impending doom. Been there, done that.

The problem with dogma is that there are always exceptions. Better to think and spare one's own life rather than be a slave to policy.

 

Hahaha! Truer words have not been spoken...

 

I personally disagree with that rule, and have seen another PCA region specifically teach and practice guiding the wheel from the right seat. Makes no sense to dismiss a potentially useful option for providing input to where the car goes.

That said, I suggest that it be standard policy to talk with the student before going on track that you may put your hands on the wheel from the right seat, in two situations:

- To help teach the line, in which case you will typically announce in advance to the student that you're going to help steer the car, and that the student's hands should also stay on the wheel.

- In an emergency, in which case it's unlikely that you'll be telling the student in advance that you're going to do it.