LuigiVampa

This is my actual quote so please stop being pedantic -

I'm a lawyer so pretty much the same thing.

Good point but this is generally part of the driver's meeting where they discuss how passing working.

Now you're just talking crazy!

ProCoach

Cheers!

mark kibort

How is that even remotely relevant, or even matter regarding my comments?

Summary message:
IN DE-

1. Be patient passing slow street cars if you are in a race car, especially in the later areas of a long straight approaching a slow turn.

2. tighten your line on main straights, even when given a point by as you approach slower traffic, and allow and assist fast traffic to pass

3. super fast cars may not clearly see a pointby if they can be traveling 100feet /second faster than you as they approach.

4. if you are on a hill/decent, OR you attempt to do an over the roof pointby, it's possible that the much faster car "prototype" might not see it clearly, and only see a blur of an arm and think it's a pointby to the left. (see pictures of actual video screeen shots for example)

Peter, we have done t his for a long time.. the above advice and observations should be well understood to be independent of the track, AND easily observed/proved by just watching the videos presented. the main takeaways, is have patience, be conscientious, drive so that unexpected actions dont effect you. ... It's a DE, not everyone has your same awareness, nor confidence/skill as you do on the track. drive accordingly.

mark kibort

Mike, what does that even mean? :roflamo: wow, what does this say about folks here like the "Turtle" and 1000s of others I've race against.
what does it say about YOU who doesnt even race and has problems even keeping his car pointed straight ahead!
I dont think ive ever had any issues of finding folks to race with .

vs you playing around at sears

Veloce Raptor

Un
****ing
Believable

IF YOU DON'T SEE THE POINT BY, YOU DON'T TAKE THE PASS.
It's as simple as that.

Jesus Mary and Joseph

Veloce Raptor

Mark, you may be a nice guy. And you may in fact be willing to help replace a transmission.

But you have once again proven with bludgeon force that you do not know what the **** you're talking about...and you are grossly misinforming a lot of people.

DTMiller

I think you are ignoring that a perfectly executed over the roof point by can look nothing like an arm pointed straight out, so if you're ignoring that impossible source of confusion upon which today's insane theory of how things work in the world is based, what other insane counterfactual suppositions are you ignoring? Maybe they had a radio connection and PLNewman told him what to do? That's not on video or supported by any facts, but WHAT IF? HUH? What if the world was different, that would really show you that you are not as fast a racer, which is totally a fact relevant to this topic. So, basically, why are you even posting when you can't answer these simple questions? What's your deal anyway, we're just trying to have a discussion in which weird, irrelevant facts are posited as being possible and then we work backwards from there to find a conclusion that, even if those were the facts, would still be wrong. And would demonstrate that the driver lacked buy in to the culture and approach that is fostered in that organization. But what about that? How come you aren't talking about that? So weird sometimes the way things go around here.

Veloce Raptor

Well played

mark kibort

for the love of GxD, mother mary, jesus and sponge bob, did YOU NOT READ WHAT i said. i provided pictures, diagrams, descriptions and you still dont get it.

Ill say it again:

The prototype probably saw the arm out the window and at that distance of approach, saw it was a valid point by a car just going under the bridge. if you ever drive a prototype, you would see that the vision is not as clear as a sports car (or street car you are used to driving on the track). my point again, and why im against over roof point bys in open groups (not street car only groups, where that is usually fine) this is because the closer rate is so great, it is absolutely imperative that all signals are clear and cant be mistaken. racers, dont look or expect the over roof pointy. why? again, because we NEVER see them.. they are impossible to do in a race car ... GET IT??

this is 20 years of RACING experience talking here, but more importantly, many years of DE and open track experience as well.

you are too gosh darn stubborn to try and open your mind to see that there are perspectives that dont agree with your own that might be helpful for those in DEs to be safer.

I challenge you for a factual face off.

again, ive said 3-4 things. you can read them above all truths by anyone's perspectives and Ive provided my objective options.

They can be summarized in two terms.. patience, situational awareness.

and yes, if you were at the track and needed a clutch replaced, i would be right there with the tools and drinks to get it done.


Now you. DT........we can agree to disagree, because as i have shown, the distance, and rate of closer along with the expectation/instinct of not expecting an over the roof pass , an arm ,OR anything out the window, can look like a point by. standard point bys, in racing are to the driver side. (or pointing across the car, visible through the rear window).

i totally am for following the rules on the track. its a danger not to. im only pointed out things ive seen over many years that i see as possible causes of confusion on the track, at high rates of speeds, that can cause dangerous situations.
im also pointing out patience, and understanding for drivers that may see you but not want to let you pass for the reasons i listed. (so again, patience and understanding, NOT condemnation)
the only blatant rule break we have discussed , was the Watkins Glen white Ferrari pass. The driver was approaching a slightly slower Miata, he got a point by and the guy didn't lift as executed. he was more focused on his own , which would have been a slow pass, vs a high powered super car behind him at a high rate of closure, who was probably expecting a point by.......he didnt get it, and broke the rules and passed safely to the right anyway with a lot of room.
in my mind, that's like rolling through a stop sign in street driving at a safe intersection with good visibility in all directions. probably safe, but technically illegal.

ProCoach

Mark, IF the DP-02 SAW the point-by, why didn't he follow that direction?

If he saw it as a valid point-by to go DRIVER'S LEFT AT THAT POINT ON THE TRACK, then the DP-02 driver is even dumber then most racers, as that WOULD INDICATE THAT THE CAR GIVING THE SIGNAL WAS PITTING IN, as the pit lane starts under the bridge drivers left.

The DP-02 driver passed in or near the PIT LANE ENTRY, which is why I asked you the question in the first place.

The turn (Turn 11, aptly named the Bridge Turn) goes to the RIGHT.

From a "racer's" point of view, wouldn't the optimal place to pass be on the INSIDE of the turn, not the OUTSIDE?

As a RACER, I look for point-by's all the time, especially when they're REQUIRED.

From the seat of my RHD prototype, I can see EVERYTHING. In fact, better than most GT cars...

Just trying to see through some of this twisted logic...

Veloce Raptor

Again, BASIC KNOWLEDGE OF THAT SPECIFIC TRACK contradicts his entire prattling diatribe

mark kibort

Peter, if the car is where i predict him to be at the time of the pointby, the prototype would have seen something out the window. certainly his car was not shading to left side indicating a "pit " direction. (as you would see if he was) usually the hand stays out and up, when entering the pits too.

all im saying, is at that distance, doesn't matter if YOU can see clearly, it was far enough away to be mistaken for a left pointby being so small.
in the heat of the battle , ive seen things that look like point bys that were actually just odd shaped rear view side mirrors.

IF the prototype saw the over roof pointby and based on his speed didnt feel it was the right side to pass on and he made a decision to pass on the other side, that is wrong and a violation of the club rule for that day

I dont think its" twisted logic" i understand your question, but based on the speeds and how far the prototype away from the bridge at the time the point by was given, he judged that by the time he was going by, he would be outside left, so he could carry more speed down the final turn onto the main straight.
from the "bridge turn" to the main striaght, its all rights. and very fast, not the 60mph the DE driver was going. You know that if YOU approached that car with no point by, the outside would have been the best place to pass... off line, is usually safest.



actually it doesn't in anyway. again i challenge you to provide a reason why it does? peter brought up the only conceivable possibility, but i think i provided a reason why the prototype ran to the left. he obviously thought it was it the preferred line. maybe we need to track that driver down to chime in.
here is the net net. OBVIOUSLY, there are two possiblies of truth...... either the Prototype broke the rules for his OWN desire for choosing the best direction to pass, or he mistakenly saw the left point by.
either way, it proves that IN DE, it always is safer to drive the line, dont make a habit of pointing by faster cars ON LINE, and make your signals clear as possible and leave them up until they are passed or as long as possible.

there is NOTHING wrong with discussing this. it was a close call and could have been a huge disaster if both drivers were not aware of the situation. if it has been a disaster, we would be reviewing it in the same way, also thinking of ways it could have been avoided.

cello

When I get a 'point by', I like to diagram it...

morsini

Mark,

All you ever do is rehash the same drivel, over and over and over again and you always start with the same sentence. "You didn't read what I wrote." Or your other favorite, "You misunderstood what I meant" When, in fact, it is you. It's you Mark. You are the common denominator here. You are the problem. You and that piece of crap you call a race car.

And offering to race people who disagree with you is what a two year old does to prove his point. Get help and grow up.

Dr911