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For sure Sebro are not 1st quality. The Meyle rotors I'm using now appear to be as good a Zimmerman, but still check and form little cracks.
However, one thing that is critical to this discussion and has not been brought up is the type of pad and the type of track you are running. The rotor I posted above with the BIG crack happened at Road America which is a VERY high-speed track with lots of heavy sustained braking. Couple that with some Hawk DTC-70's and you got a "very hot mess."
I can make these rotors last a lot longer on a short track with shorter, more abrupt, braking zones. The heat just doesn't reach as high of a temp as it does with those big tracks like RA, Mod-O, VIR, etc.
Just the other day I was trying to do the math on your 2-piece rotors. I agree they are better. Others have said the same. But the cost of entry is very high. IIRC, about $1,500 + new calipers in my case.
I can get a SET of front rotors shipped for $120. I will go through 2 sets in a season... maybe #3 at the end. So my return on investment doesn't start to pay off until year 4 or 5.
temps are as high at laguna, a known hard on braking track, because of the lack of speed , and time at speed, that road america has. I was seeing near 1500F temps at laguna which you may have the thread regarding why. (KE dissipation calculation vs time).
this is why Laguna is a torture chamber for brakes, especially as a heavy car gets faster and more powerful.
I even ran Laguna on the single piston calipers for 4 years during a crazy schedule of racing, you had to be so mindful of braking, but they worked, but with zimmerman, they lasted a decent time due to being slotted and not drilled.
zimmerman NEVER cracked out until they were thoroughly worn, then it was only spider cracks that were ended up toward the outer edge when i would junk them.
getting back to the math.... once you find the hats, you can use the rotor rings that i use and only use spacers to use your existing calipers. after all, even the S4 calipers are the same size and use the same size pad as the F50/F40 ferarri . (albeit 14"rotors) same as anderson uses too. so, there is a cheap way to go, and it includes the rotor hat with some very simple spacers to adapt to either GTS rotor 320mm or 330mm rotor sizes.
wear is not that dependant to the pad compound. (when it comes to race pads) I saw no differnce between pads equal to the DTC70 in stopping power and heat to others like ST41s, PFC11s, pagid blacks, and a few others. The ST41s were the only ones that damaged the rotors with grooves (very abrasive)
Zimmerman or porsche OE, if you are heading to the track.. check the venting design too. very important.
temps are as high at laguna, a known hard on braking track, because of the lack of speed , and time at speed, that road america has. I was seeing near 1500F temps at laguna which you may have the thread regarding why. (KE dissipation calculation vs time).
this is why Laguna is a torture chamber for brakes, especially as a heavy car gets faster and more powerful.
I even ran Laguna on the single piston calipers for 4 years during a crazy schedule of racing, you had to be so mindful of braking, but they worked, but with zimmerman, they lasted a decent time due to being slotted and not drilled.
zimmerman NEVER cracked out until they were thoroughly worn, then it was only spider cracks that were ended up toward the outer edge when i would junk them.
getting back to the math.... once you find the hats, you can use the rotor rings that i use and only use spacers to use your existing calipers. after all, even the S4 calipers are the same size and use the same size pad as the F50/F40 ferarri . (albeit 14"rotors) same as anderson uses too. so, there is a cheap way to go, and it includes the rotor hat with some very simple spacers to adapt to either GTS rotor 320mm or 330mm rotor sizes.
wear is not that dependant to the pad compound. (when it comes to race pads) I saw no differnce between pads equal to the DTC70 in stopping power and heat to others like ST41s, PFC11s, pagid blacks, and a few others. The ST41s were the only ones that damaged the rotors with grooves (very abrasive)
Ok...I'm curious now. So tell me. What rotor rings are you running and how much do they cost?
Originally Posted by mark kibort
Zimmerman or porsche OE, if you are heading to the track.. check the venting design too. very important.
+1
I think this makes a HUGE difference. I've seen some cheap rotors, but the vent design is poor.
I don't think you'll ever get a solid return on investment when going to a bigger/better 2 piece rotor unless your labor costs are pretty high. My reasoning for them is peace of mind, I'd much rather spend a few extra bucks than worry occasionally if I'm running cheap rotors a bit beyond their capabilities.
I don't think you'll ever get a solid return on investment when going to a bigger/better 2 piece rotor unless your labor costs are pretty high. My reasoning for them is peace of mind, I'd much rather spend a few extra bucks than worry occasionally if I'm running cheap rotors a bit beyond their capabilities.
they pay for themselves the first racing year,NO question. I get 2 seasons out of the rotor rings now. i might even go into part of the 3rd. before, with zimmermans, which are the best of the stock stuff (similar to wear and life of Porsche OE), last 5-6 weekends.
the OE stuff wears gracefully, so never worried about premature failure of catastrophic failure. they wear like the 2 piece, just the 2 piece does it over 2x -3x the life expectancy.
Ok...I'm curious now. So tell me. What rotor rings are you running and how much do they cost?
+1
I think this makes a HUGE difference. I've seen some cheap rotors, but the vent design is poor.
Im using RACINGBRAKES>COM rotor rings. (same as brembo hole configuration) they can make a custom hat for you too.
hey are fantastic, especially since they changed their venting design (more aero, similar to brembo.. maybe even better).
below, old version vs new version of racingbrakes.com (new on left) then, comparison of racingbrakes , new and old and Brembo, then the front rotors on the car. also, below last pic, 15 season old zimmerman rear rotors.... cracks came one day at laguna all at once, with change of pads.
Your friend should clean out the drilled holes; it will improve cooling and extend the life of the rotors. Use a stick or compressed air (wear a mask).
Those rotors are still good. However, if he is going to continue tracking the car, he should go to more track-appropriate rotors and and when these ones are finished.
Im using RACINGBRAKES>COM rotor rings. (same as brembo hole configuration) they can make a custom hat for you too.
hey are fantastic, especially since they changed their venting design (more aero, similar to brembo.. maybe even better).
below, old version vs new version of racingbrakes.com (new on left) then, comparison of racingbrakes , new and old and Brembo, then the front rotors on the car. also, below last pic, 15 season old zimmerman rear rotors.... cracks came one day at laguna all at once, with change of pads.
Mark,
Appreciate your sharing the track experience on the rotor durability, which usually only if you use them hard, really hard, can tell the difference (from one brand to the other) on durability and how they perform ie. how consistent of a brake torque delivery under extreme heat stress condition and we are glad that you like them.
Your testimonial is linked in the 991 pccb brake option thread here.
Im using RACINGBRAKES>COM rotor rings. (same as brembo hole configuration) they can make a custom hat for you too.
hey are fantastic, especially since they changed their venting design (more aero, similar to brembo.. maybe even better).
below, old version vs new version of racingbrakes.com (new on left) then, comparison of racingbrakes , new and old and Brembo, then the front rotors on the car. also, below last pic, 15 season old zimmerman rear rotors.... cracks came one day at laguna all at once, with change of pads.
Mark- when you say 2 seasons out the Racingbrakes what does your season look like? How heavy is your car? Using them f&r? What pads?
I have BREMBO two piece up front and PMNA one piece in rear. Using PAGID GREENS. Wear has been poor all around (even though the fronts are endurance 380/34mm) this season and I haven't gotten that much faster.
Some GTC teams suggest PMNA in front and PFC in rear but I'd try a set of RB
rings on the BREMBO hats as they fit according to you.
Mark- when you say 2 seasons out the Racingbrakes what does your season look like? How heavy is your car? Using them f&r? What pads?
I have BREMBO two piece up front and PMNA one piece in rear. Using PAGID GREENS. Wear has been poor all around (even though the fronts are endurance 380/34mm) this season and I haven't gotten that much faster.
Some GTC teams suggest PMNA in front and PFC in rear but I'd try a set of RB
rings on the BREMBO hats as they fit according to you.
My season is the full SCCA race season, which is once a month, 3 days,from April to October, at the 3 tracks in the region. (laguna, sears and T-hill) . I usually venture out to another track too, like Willow springs , buttonwillow and in January 2018, CalSpeedway.
my car is very 'old cup car like" as far as power and weight. (a little heavier at 3000lbs with driver and 375rwhp) . Laguna is very hard on brakes, and went to the RB rings due to how fast i was destroying pads and rotors. (which i thought at the tiime was normal wear. once i went to two piece , wear radically changed. porsche solid rotors lasted 5 weekends, drilled barely lasted 3.
im running only the RB rotors up front with stock porsche rotors in the rear. PFC11s up front and pagid RS14s in the rear
the only difference you might see with the rotors from RB, is that they will be a lot less expensive. they claim the metallurgy is better, and might last even longer than brembo, but i have no experience to compare. from the look of them and how they wear, combined with the extreme temps i see, i think they are a great bet!
give them a call and they will make sure the rotor hats mate to their rotor rings. they have there own hardware for the rings too.
Thanks for the info Mark- just trying gauge usage and application. I'm about 2750 lbs loaded and 470whp. Same type of season more or less. Rd ATL, Sebring, Barber and Daytona. I'll give RB a call and get a front set to try out and worse case, keep as spares. Best case- keep the Brembos and PMNAs as spares.
Last edited by Ritter v4.0; 11-17-2017 at 10:32 PM.
Anyone experiencing cracked rotors (OEM or Sebro), step up to these next time, buy in is slightly higher but will last much longer. And they're pretty!
Brembo 332x32 replacement discs (In stock) http://www.racingbrake.com/Rotor-rin...05-02-311k.htm
Price includes 20 sets of brand new hardware, simpler, stronger (M6 vs. Brembo's M5), and easier to assemble and disassemble. Lowest price (cheaper than OE style 1pc heavy non directional vane rotor) track duty two piece rotors in the industry.
I'm no longer a racer but did run an earlier version on my heavily modded 987.1 DE car. I didn't notice much difference from the OEM rotor, switched to Sebro slotted and stayed with them except for one experiment with PFC two piece on the front.
11-09-2017, 07:30 PM
