Vancouver83LTD

Ok so here's a hypothetical question
in October 2003 I was 16 and I went with a PCA member on the PCA drive on a saturday morning from 5:00 to noon
now i was with a very safe and competent porsche 928 owner (Think he has a boxster S now)
However I signed a waiver.
Would my waiver had been null and void as my parents were 1) in england at the time and unaware of what I was doing on the morning in question
& 2) i was under the age of 18 and thus a minor
say i had been involved in an accident causing a fatality of my own through no fault of my own - would my parents be able to sue?
They wouldn't, this is purely hypothetical

Dale Gribble

i htink they probably would be able too. since you are a minor, you have to have a parent or legal guardian sign off on all kamikazie joyries.

Bob Rouleau

Vancouver - it depends where you were. In some jurisdictions, parents have to sign in Colorado IIRC parents and a kid under 18 have to sign. PCA resolves this by insisting that anyone on track be 18 years old and have a valid driver's license.

Nick

Bob, the change well in the center divider of the 430 makes a great cup holder. The Starbuck tall container fits nice in snug in there.

David C ,I agree with everything you wrote.

David H., recently in San Diego the accident rate had gone up dramatically on one stretch of highway. According to the authorities, the reason was lack of speed limit enforcement. As a result, the CHP began an extensive enforcement program which (if you believe them) reduced the accident rate.

Montana I believe reintroduced speed limits in areas that did not have them in the past.Reasons given public safety.

pcar964

yeah, it's the car's fault... give me a break

Bob Rouleau

Nick - would you expect anything less from the authorities? Of course accidents went down - one would have to closely examine the actual data to believe it. David H and the traffic engineers make some very good points. Police presence also reduces the incidence of aggressive driving. Knowing there was a blitz on, perhaps the drunks stayed away?

I have read that in Montana some people were abusing the "safe speed" notion. Since it is difficult to prosecute someone for dangerous driving (what criteria?) for excessive speed for the conditions, they reluctantly went back to posted limits. Note that the problem was not the 85 percentile drivers, it was the lunatic fringe.

Lastly my question about cup holders was a joke. I do not drink anything while driving the 430 or the GT3.

Rgds,

mac993

Nick- what freeway in SD are you refering to?

Nick

Highway 52 and parts of I-5 near 52.

Bob I was aware you were joking but I wanted to provide you with valuable info about your 430. You never know when the craving for Starbucks strikes you.Its not in your owners manual.

Bob Rouleau

Nick - In these parts the roads are not smooth enough to permit drinking any flavored liquid in a tan leather interior.

Dmin's suggestion about a suitable cup holder in the passenger seat was the optimal one, note, there was no mention of coffee!!

I appreciate your input though, there is a lot of useful info which is not included in the manual. For instance how to modify the plug for the battery maintainer which cannot fit in the socket provided, until dismantled and rotated 90 degrees. By the way, I don't know if you are aware but there is a service campaign on 430's with the F1 tranny. Mine is affected and I am hoping for a no snow day to get it over to the dealer who can't be too busy this time of year.

Back to the topic, does anyone know if the waivers allegedly signed by Ben and Cory covered anything more than the track and organizer?
Best,

kilrgt

No offense taken at all, I don't think the family and or estate is liable for the costs I am not sure of what kind of insurance he had at the time, but i thought that this is what insurance is for.This was not negligence that I see.This was a tragic accident and a great loss. I can understand Cory's family wanting some sort of reason for why he died,but I don't think a lawsuit will be that answer.I do not know all of the facts involved , and I might be talking out of turn, but I still don't get it.

kilrgt

As a matter of fact Yes I do, and as I said I do not know what type of insurance he had.Doesn't matter I still don't feel his family is responsible. Please take no offence to my reply

kilrgt

OK i try more more kick at the can, ill try to be more clear.I don't see any merit on the law suit. I wouldn't want my family responsible for the expenses of a lawsuit that was not their fault we all understand this. Again I don't claim to know what exactly happened on that day, and I could be 100% wrong legally, but i am 100% right morally. I would like to know more of the story but the way i understand it is that the track or their personal may be at fault. Again it was an accident that shouldn't have happened but I am not sure their is negligence here.You do bring up a good question on who is legally responsible?Maybe no one needs to take blame and all parties involve should try to understand that no body wanted this to happen and if they felt they could have prevented this I am sure they would have.Ok maybe this is a s clear as mud.

Greg Fishman

I don't know all the facts either but have heard from some good sources that Ben did make a major mistake (or maybe it was on purpose?) in that he continued hot lapping the track even after the checker was thrown. The car that he was avoiding was not expecting anyone on the track at the same time. IF that is true, Ben was negligent, IMO.

Vancouver83LTD

ahh this was a breakfast club ride....
anyways, interesting, just a little thought. my parents aren't that type they never would.

Mikey

That was not the case. Ben was first on the track in our group, the rest of us waiting to get on the track including the F-car that almost hit him. The car simply does not have enough tire and downforce to be stable at the kind of speeds it is capable of at the track. It's a wanna be F430 Spyder, except it will not falter and performs flawlessly the job of killing its passengers. Porsche should pay a price for testing customers in it's crash testing program. I don't think it was the airbags that stopped the 2006 model but the number and frequency of CGT crashes. There is always Vettes and Vipers at a fraction of the cost for those with a death wish.