CGT lawsuit filed.
03-28-2006, 09:21 PM
#211
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Originally Posted by magwheel
When I lost control...... I don't remember saying that! I do remember saying the car went sideways a little and scared the hell out of me! But from what i hear, you're noted for stirring the post up by apparently writing your own script of various quotes. Thank God you not a Judge cause you remind me of the legendary 'Judge Roy Bean,' making up the charges as we go along!!BTW, A little 'birdie' told me you have a 430 Spyder and you like to think how much better it is than a Porsche. Sounds like a pompous *** situation to me. You just can't compliment somebody on what they have. Whatever you have at the time has to be better than everyone else's choice of cars. That's the big difference between me and you. No matter what someone else has, it's their ride and means as much to them as any car I own! And, I will acknowledge that and pay them compliments and even have a friendly discussion on their car.
430 Spyder Huh? That's a pretty hairy car you know! I do cause I have a 430 Coupe. Stick or F1? Hopefully it's a F1 so you can keep all your concentration on the road and watch for all the other underlings around you! Are you sure you can handle it? I know this guy Nick who will tell you how dangerous it is and....... Nick? Ohhh, that's you! Nevermind!!
Bring it on Nick...... "Go ahead.... make my day!"p.s. So you won't change my words and make everybody think I'm a belligerent so and so.... Hey everybody..... I'm just pulling Nick's chain!! Yeah, right!
FYI, I have nothing against Porsche as a car. It is a terrific car. However, I do have issues with the company and their philosophy.
03-28-2006, 09:34 PM
#212
928 Barrister
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In my 928, (though I admit it is not a CGT), I frequently experience the rear wheels breaking loose when it shifts. At that moment, the car shifts sideways and wiggles a little until the wheels hook up. Sheesh !! That's not losing control IMO. Happens all the time. A little rubber on the road. It simply tucks its mannerly tail back into place and resumes its direction. In my 914/6, I can make the rear end squirrelly simply by changing spring rates; so much so that changing lanes briskly can bring on sudden oversteer which can be controlled, or reducing rates to reduce oversteer. What's the problem? I know it is either there or not there and act accordingly. Hardly losing control, though sometimes tense, the car can be tuned. I am responsible for how it reacts and is set up. But losing control.....I am responsible for that......and a slight tendency to go sideways a bit or spin the tires as it does is hardly losing control.
03-28-2006, 09:38 PM
#213
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Originally Posted by Ron_H
There are those among us who wish to make the world risk free. Good luck.
Of course then evolution would become de-evolution and we would become helpless blobs of jelly vibrating in wombs of goo, unable to cope with a fart.
Of course then evolution would become de-evolution and we would become helpless blobs of jelly vibrating in wombs of goo, unable to cope with a fart.
03-28-2006, 09:51 PM
#215
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Nick - you embrace a philosophy that I believe is fundamentally wrong.
You make the assumption that the guy who buys a supercar needs to be protected by the manufacturer. Why? If the car is defective, that's another matter. If, on the other hand, the only issue is that the supercar has supercar performance (as advertised), what error did the manufacturer make?
What responsibility does the driver have? Should he not respect the performance of his car? Is Porsche to be villified for giving the buyer what they advertised? I assume that the buyer who lays out nearly a half a million dollars for a car has some idea what he's getting.
Where is the buyer's responsibility here? This sure sounds like a case of "it is always someone elses fault." It is the sense of entitlement that galls me. Americans are entitled to never be wrong. It is always someone elses fault. The coffee was too hot, the CGT is too powerful. Yeah. Sure.
You make the assumption that the guy who buys a supercar needs to be protected by the manufacturer. Why? If the car is defective, that's another matter. If, on the other hand, the only issue is that the supercar has supercar performance (as advertised), what error did the manufacturer make?
What responsibility does the driver have? Should he not respect the performance of his car? Is Porsche to be villified for giving the buyer what they advertised? I assume that the buyer who lays out nearly a half a million dollars for a car has some idea what he's getting.
Where is the buyer's responsibility here? This sure sounds like a case of "it is always someone elses fault." It is the sense of entitlement that galls me. Americans are entitled to never be wrong. It is always someone elses fault. The coffee was too hot, the CGT is too powerful. Yeah. Sure.
03-28-2006, 11:22 PM
#216
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Originally Posted by Bob Rouleau
Nick - you embrace a philosophy that I believe is fundamentally wrong.
Y. If, on the other hand, the only issue is that the supercar has supercar performance (as advertised), what error did the manufacturer make?
I assume that the buyer who lays out nearly a half a million dollars for a car has some idea what he's getting.
The coffee was too hot, the CGT is too powerful. Yeah. Sure.
Y. If, on the other hand, the only issue is that the supercar has supercar performance (as advertised), what error did the manufacturer make?
I assume that the buyer who lays out nearly a half a million dollars for a car has some idea what he's getting.
The coffee was too hot, the CGT is too powerful. Yeah. Sure.
Fact: Someone just laid out $500,000 and did not have any idea how to drive a manual transmission. Nevetheless, the car was sold to him. Bob, do you have any questions about that?
Fact: there have been several single car incidents involving a CGT and 4 people have died and several seriously injured. Bob, does this raise any questions in your mind?
Fact: I know you have problems with our legal system and it is because we hold people accountable. In Canada, they subscribe to a NO Fault system. Bob do you think that is fair to responsible drivers?
03-28-2006, 11:22 PM
#217
Sorry about that!
Hi Nick, You're absolutely right! Personal attacks are unfair and unnecessary so I'm more than willing to apologize.
But..... Quoting you: "What I own is not relevant. I have issue with the CGT safety. You and I may disagree but there is no need to attack me personally. The implication of your prior post is you lost control. Whether it was momentarily or several minutes is not the point. The point is the car had lost its balance as did the driver(pun). Had you had PSAM it would not have happened. Thank God a another car was not next to you. You would have lost your license and your car. Capice?"
But, what you own is relevant because it's an indication as to whether or not you have had personal experience in that type of car or whether you're just reading and regurgitating info you found somewhere without verification of authenticity or circumstances or the conditions of the event.
Secondly, a car was next to me doing that 'wanna race challenge' and like a dumb ***, I fell for it! I had absolutely noting to gain and everything to lose! Dumb, dumb and dumb!
By the way.. what is PSAM? I'm new to 'supercar language' or technical car talk.
Again, I apologize for any indication of a personal attack. A friend, Michael
But..... Quoting you: "What I own is not relevant. I have issue with the CGT safety. You and I may disagree but there is no need to attack me personally. The implication of your prior post is you lost control. Whether it was momentarily or several minutes is not the point. The point is the car had lost its balance as did the driver(pun). Had you had PSAM it would not have happened. Thank God a another car was not next to you. You would have lost your license and your car. Capice?"
But, what you own is relevant because it's an indication as to whether or not you have had personal experience in that type of car or whether you're just reading and regurgitating info you found somewhere without verification of authenticity or circumstances or the conditions of the event.
Secondly, a car was next to me doing that 'wanna race challenge' and like a dumb ***, I fell for it! I had absolutely noting to gain and everything to lose! Dumb, dumb and dumb!
By the way.. what is PSAM? I'm new to 'supercar language' or technical car talk.
Again, I apologize for any indication of a personal attack. A friend, Michael
03-28-2006, 11:32 PM
#218
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Originally Posted by Nick
Fact: Someone just laid out $500,000 and did not have any idea how to drive a manual transmission. Nevetheless, the car was sold to him. Bob, do you have any questions about that?
03-28-2006, 11:46 PM
#219
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Originally Posted by Nick
Fact: Porsche has perfected a stability management system which it provides to the Turbo along with AWD. No exception; you buy a turbo you must get these features. Bob, why is that?
- the 996 GT2 has no electronic aids except ABS
- the 996 GT3 has no electronic aids except ABS
- the 997 GT3 has ABS and Traction Control
- the CGT has ABS and Traction Control
Do you see a pattern here? I drive a 996 GT3 on the track and I love it because it has no electronic gizmos to interfere with my driving. I'm not alone in this. If I crash it will be my fault and mine alone. I won't be whining about how big bad Porsche failed to protect me from my mistakes. So far after 10,000 track miles I haven't put a scratch on it.
Tell me, if the owner of a 430 turns off all the electronic aids (CST OFF) and crashes, would you blame Ferrari for allowing the driver to turn the stability system off? Please explain the difference between a 430 with CST off and a CGT.
Originally Posted by Nick
Fact: Someone just laid out $500,000 and did not have any idea how to drive a manual transmission. Nevetheless, the car was sold to him. Bob, do you have any questions about that??
Why is this the fault of the manufacturer? Is it possible that the buyer made a mistake? Is it Porsche's responsibility to prevent the buyer from making a mistake? Or, is it the notion that it is always someone elses fault?
Originally Posted by Nick
Fact: there have been several single car incidents involving a CGT and 4 people have died and several seriously injured. Bob, does this raise any questions in your mind??
Originally Posted by Nick
Fact: I know you have problems with our legal system and it is because we hold people accountable. In Canada, they subscribe to a NO Fault system. Bob do you think that is fair to responsible drivers?
Fact: There are a lot of people, including lawyers who believe that the US needs tort reform. Visit www.atra.org and see for yourself.
Aside to Mag - PSM is Porsche Stability Management. A system which uses wheel speed sensors, yaw sensors and throttle control to help maintain control. All very clever and the system is good enough to mask serious driving errors until such time as the unknowing driver makes a gross error and crashes. Electronics cannot overcome the laws of physics.
Regards
03-29-2006, 12:03 AM
#220
Originally Posted by Nick
Fact: Porsche has perfected a stability management system which it provides to the Turbo along with AWD. No exception; you buy a turbo you must get these features. Bob, why is that?
Fact: Someone just laid out $500,000 and did not have any idea how to drive a manual transmission. Nevetheless, the car was sold to him. Bob, do you have any questions about that?
Fact: there have been several single car incidents involving a CGT and 4 people have died and several seriously injured. Bob, does this raise any questions in your mind?
Fact: I know you have problems with our legal system and it is because we hold people accountable. In Canada, they subscribe to a NO Fault system. Bob do you think that is fair to responsible drivers?
Fact: Someone just laid out $500,000 and did not have any idea how to drive a manual transmission. Nevetheless, the car was sold to him. Bob, do you have any questions about that?
Fact: there have been several single car incidents involving a CGT and 4 people have died and several seriously injured. Bob, does this raise any questions in your mind?
Fact: I know you have problems with our legal system and it is because we hold people accountable. In Canada, they subscribe to a NO Fault system. Bob do you think that is fair to responsible drivers?
03-29-2006, 12:03 AM
#221
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Jeff, how else would you explain Stella?
03-29-2006, 12:07 AM
#222
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And Jeff (by the way, sorry for using Icon, I have sigs and avatars turned off to make pages load faster ..mods have to read everything)explain this one from the tort reform website. Did you look at it> I suspect not.
Woman Sues Phonebook Company over Botched Liposuction
A jury awarded $1.6 million to a woman who claimed a phonebook company published fraudulent data that resulted in her disfigurement from liposuction surgery. The woman found an ad under the plastic surgery section that indicated a physician was “Board Certified.” The doctor, however, was board certified in dermatology and anatomic pathology.
Oregonian, February 25, 2005
As I said, someone else is always to blame.
Regards,
Woman Sues Phonebook Company over Botched Liposuction
A jury awarded $1.6 million to a woman who claimed a phonebook company published fraudulent data that resulted in her disfigurement from liposuction surgery. The woman found an ad under the plastic surgery section that indicated a physician was “Board Certified.” The doctor, however, was board certified in dermatology and anatomic pathology.
Oregonian, February 25, 2005
As I said, someone else is always to blame.
Regards,
03-29-2006, 12:17 AM
#223
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Jeff - ok here's another
Alcoholism Worsened by Train Crash?
A train conductor settled for $8.5 million from a railroad after claiming a collision between his commuter train and a freight train worsened his alcoholism.
Source: Associated Press Feb 2, 2005.
Alcoholism Worsened by Train Crash?
A train conductor settled for $8.5 million from a railroad after claiming a collision between his commuter train and a freight train worsened his alcoholism.
Source: Associated Press Feb 2, 2005.
03-29-2006, 12:30 AM
#224
Actually Icon, one case DOES a system make - it's called starre decisis. Precedent. If the system is such that it allows such ridiculous rulings, there is a problem with the system.
03-29-2006, 01:55 AM
#225
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Originally Posted by icon
as far as i can tell the only difference in porsche stability management equipped vehicles and traction control equipped vehicles is abd automatic brake differential - if the car begins to oversteer or understeer, abd applies selective braking on individual wheels to bring the car back into line.
Unless I'm mistaken, vehicles unequipped with PSM lack yaw sensors.