Diesel Cayenne and VW emission issue
#16
I don't think it literally disables it, it turns it down when more power, etc... is needed. Basically dynamically using it, and that maybe a problem.
I just don't think it's fair to compare real-life vs. lab data and come to any conclusion. Have they tested a KIA emission during real-life driving comparing it to EPA tests results? I can almost bet ECU adopts during the EPA test for MPG, as it can easily change the timing to lower the HP and reduce emission and EPA does NOT test emission per HP.
I just don't think it's fair to compare real-life vs. lab data and come to any conclusion. Have they tested a KIA emission during real-life driving comparing it to EPA tests results? I can almost bet ECU adopts during the EPA test for MPG, as it can easily change the timing to lower the HP and reduce emission and EPA does NOT test emission per HP.
#17
Appreciate all the good input. Going back to my original question: will the VW emission issue will effect the Cayenne diesel. It sounds like a "no" because of the Ad-Blue system. I kind of agree that this might be a big enough change in a system that would require new logic so therefore it might not have the same issue unless it is found later that they did the same across the board. I never imagined that this was an industry practice and can see the points made by both sides in the previous posts.
#18
Rennlist Member
The answer for me is that we don't know. Remember that it all started with the independent guys conducted the original test because they were actually trying to promote VW's claims. Besides the VWs, they also used a BMW X5. That X5 passed all those tests. Unless they had also a 3.0 V6 Audi TDI engined car (the Cayenne diesel engine) in the mix, there is no way to tell whether VW did not also cheated. Yes, some of us say that with the Ad Blue, there is no longer an issue. However, short of someone doing an actual real life test (like those original researchers), who knows?
[Edit: Some of the VW 2.0 engine cars involved in the EPA action were already using AdBLue]
[Edit: Some of the VW 2.0 engine cars involved in the EPA action were already using AdBLue]
Last edited by visitador; 09-21-2015 at 10:22 PM.
#19
Rennlist Member
#20
Rennlist Member
Appreciate all the good input. Going back to my original question: will the VW emission issue will effect the Cayenne diesel. It sounds like a "no" because of the Ad-Blue system. I kind of agree that this might be a big enough change in a system that would require new logic so therefore it might not have the same issue unless it is found later that they did the same across the board. I never imagined that this was an industry practice and can see the points made by both sides in the previous posts.
The majority of the news and media report just said "Diesel engines" and never mentioned anything about Ad-Blue system or not, hence the perception out there would definitely be a lot more negative towrads Diesel, and hence it will drive the demand and prices down, but that's just speculation on my part.
#21
ref - http://www.pri.org/stories/2015-09-2...-and-thats-big
excerpt - "In addition to fines, the automaker is facing a massive recall and the Department of Justice also announced its own investigation into Volkswagen's actions. Late Monday, the Detroit News reported the diesel investigation was expanding to the 3-liter V6 diesel engine used on Audis and the Porsche Cayenne.. Consumer lawsuits are also expected."
Let's assume for a moment that the Cayenne Diesel is guilty of the same sin of its less costly sisters. No problem, just re-flash an eprom or load a new software stack and your good to go...... or are you?
Wouldn't something have to give; performance (acceleration) or mileage (MPG)? Isn't this the three legged stool argument with contractors; you can only pick two - cheap, fast or good?
I love the mileage that we are getting now, consistent 25+ and on trips I have managed to squeeze 38 out of the little weasel (although the command system sucks but save that for another post
It would be pretty hard to tell folks that spent over 60k that at your next maintenance interval we are going to de-tune your car. While I'm not a hippy I do respect the environment and the purpose of buying the Cayenne was better mpg, it was clean and it could tow a boat allowing us to retire our current 'kraftstoff schwein'.
I suppose the manufacturer allows for a little wiggle room in the specs so maybe the de-tune will be within the advertised tolerances (i.e.: mileage will vary based on driving habits so the reason you are getting poor mileage now is not the de-tune but a problem in your ankle) but I don't see this as a good thing if it falls upon my, less than 3k miles on the odometer, Porsche.
excerpt - "In addition to fines, the automaker is facing a massive recall and the Department of Justice also announced its own investigation into Volkswagen's actions. Late Monday, the Detroit News reported the diesel investigation was expanding to the 3-liter V6 diesel engine used on Audis and the Porsche Cayenne.. Consumer lawsuits are also expected."
Let's assume for a moment that the Cayenne Diesel is guilty of the same sin of its less costly sisters. No problem, just re-flash an eprom or load a new software stack and your good to go...... or are you?
Wouldn't something have to give; performance (acceleration) or mileage (MPG)? Isn't this the three legged stool argument with contractors; you can only pick two - cheap, fast or good?
I love the mileage that we are getting now, consistent 25+ and on trips I have managed to squeeze 38 out of the little weasel (although the command system sucks but save that for another post
It would be pretty hard to tell folks that spent over 60k that at your next maintenance interval we are going to de-tune your car. While I'm not a hippy I do respect the environment and the purpose of buying the Cayenne was better mpg, it was clean and it could tow a boat allowing us to retire our current 'kraftstoff schwein'.
I suppose the manufacturer allows for a little wiggle room in the specs so maybe the de-tune will be within the advertised tolerances (i.e.: mileage will vary based on driving habits so the reason you are getting poor mileage now is not the de-tune but a problem in your ankle) but I don't see this as a good thing if it falls upon my, less than 3k miles on the odometer, Porsche.
#23
Rennlist Member
ref - http://www.pri.org/stories/2015-09-2...-and-thats-big
excerpt - "In addition to fines, the automaker is facing a massive recall and the Department of Justice also announced its own investigation into Volkswagen's actions. Late Monday, the Detroit News reported the diesel investigation was expanding to the 3-liter V6 diesel engine used on Audis and the Porsche Cayenne.. Consumer lawsuits are also expected."
Let's assume for a moment that the Cayenne Diesel is guilty of the same sin of its less costly sisters. No problem, just re-flash an eprom or load a new software stack and your good to go...... or are you?
Wouldn't something have to give; performance (acceleration) or mileage (MPG)? Isn't this the three legged stool argument with contractors; you can only pick two - cheap, fast or good?
I love the mileage that we are getting now, consistent 25+ and on trips I have managed to squeeze 38 out of the little weasel (although the command system sucks but save that for another post
It would be pretty hard to tell folks that spent over 60k that at your next maintenance interval we are going to de-tune your car. While I'm not a hippy I do respect the environment and the purpose of buying the Cayenne was better mpg, it was clean and it could tow a boat allowing us to retire our current 'kraftstoff schwein'.
I suppose the manufacturer allows for a little wiggle room in the specs so maybe the de-tune will be within the advertised tolerances (i.e.: mileage will vary based on driving habits so the reason you are getting poor mileage now is not the de-tune but a problem in your ankle) but I don't see this as a good thing if it falls upon my, less than 3k miles on the odometer, Porsche.
excerpt - "In addition to fines, the automaker is facing a massive recall and the Department of Justice also announced its own investigation into Volkswagen's actions. Late Monday, the Detroit News reported the diesel investigation was expanding to the 3-liter V6 diesel engine used on Audis and the Porsche Cayenne.. Consumer lawsuits are also expected."
Let's assume for a moment that the Cayenne Diesel is guilty of the same sin of its less costly sisters. No problem, just re-flash an eprom or load a new software stack and your good to go...... or are you?
Wouldn't something have to give; performance (acceleration) or mileage (MPG)? Isn't this the three legged stool argument with contractors; you can only pick two - cheap, fast or good?
I love the mileage that we are getting now, consistent 25+ and on trips I have managed to squeeze 38 out of the little weasel (although the command system sucks but save that for another post
It would be pretty hard to tell folks that spent over 60k that at your next maintenance interval we are going to de-tune your car. While I'm not a hippy I do respect the environment and the purpose of buying the Cayenne was better mpg, it was clean and it could tow a boat allowing us to retire our current 'kraftstoff schwein'.
I suppose the manufacturer allows for a little wiggle room in the specs so maybe the de-tune will be within the advertised tolerances (i.e.: mileage will vary based on driving habits so the reason you are getting poor mileage now is not the de-tune but a problem in your ankle) but I don't see this as a good thing if it falls upon my, less than 3k miles on the odometer, Porsche.
If the 3.0 is affected, I won't return for the recall until I know exactly how it will affect my car.
#24
Three Wheelin'
A lot of TDi drivers of the 4-cyl type get mpg numbers way beyond the EPA data. The V6 TDi drivers seem to get what the epa shows. And because it uses an ad-blue system, I have a hard time believing that there is much cheating going on with that motor.
Cheating, even just a little, on a light-weight 4-cyl TDi yields pretty big results compared to cheating on a 5K lb SUV that might yield 1 mpg difference.
Cheating, even just a little, on a light-weight 4-cyl TDi yields pretty big results compared to cheating on a 5K lb SUV that might yield 1 mpg difference.
#27
Nothing more, nothing less......
#28
Burning Brakes
#29
Rennlist Member
Edit: From the following article, Porsche claims that it, and not mother VW, conducts its own emission calibrations:http://www.businessinsider.com/porsc...scandal-2015-9
#30
Intermediate
The real problem for Porsche is CAFE. These clean diesels were a fundamental part of VW's CAFE strategy which allowed them to make outsized profits on non-complaint lines like Porsche. The reason Porsche was allowed to operate an entire brand that cannot comply with CAFE was because VW was allowed combine all brands under the VW numbers. If the clean diesels are eliminated, Porsche may need to be modified for higher mpg which will necessitate smaller engines.
Eventually, electric vehicles will bridge this gap but in the short run the wholesale elimination of TDI sales in the fleet will impact low mpg Porsche cars like the Cayenne.
Which may mean... get 'em while you can.
Eventually, electric vehicles will bridge this gap but in the short run the wholesale elimination of TDI sales in the fleet will impact low mpg Porsche cars like the Cayenne.
Which may mean... get 'em while you can.