Android356

I'm putting together my track car and have been trying to figure out which way to go. Any input would be great. My questions are pros/cons on:

Mechanical versus electric activation. Chances of accidental firing?

Spa, Fire Bottle and AFF seem to be popular choices. Any issues with service after purchase, warranty etc. I know its a low maintenance item, but by chance you need help can you get it?

Seems most are saying 3 nozzles are good, 4 the best. Two for the motor, one for you and one for the gas tank or two for you. Opinions?

Anything else worth considering in the buildup?

Thanks in advance! Andy

jmreiser

I have had great results with the SPA AFFF electric trigger setup. Buy from Pegasus Auto Racing. Ask for Bob Clark.

My cars had Porsche factory fire system, which used a 2-nozzle 2-trigger bottle. Too expensive & too old to service. Converted easily to use a new 1-nozzle bottle.

Traditionally they aim one nozzle at the middle of the motor, one at the driver, and one at the fuel cell. I use 2 in the engine bay, one over each fuel rail. Bonus for a twin turbo it would also hose down the turbos, which is a good place for an oil fire in a turbo car. Don't ask me how I arrived at these conclusions.

AFFF is great. Nothing to clean up.

Anything else, yes, don't fire it accidentally.

jmreiser

The electric ones are turned off after each track or dyno day so as to reduce the chances of accidental firing. The mechanical ones have a lock pin or whatever to achieve the same. The chances of an accidental firing are about even. It is a lot easier to run the switch(es) & wiring for the electrical setup vs a mechanical cable system, and later on if you add other gauges, lap timers, cameras, that mechanical fire cable may be in your way. Also true if you move a passenger's seat in & out.

I strongly recommend the 4L bottle. Around here (Watkins Glen), when you have a fire, they don't put it out, they hand you a bottle and tell you "hey buddy, you're on fire". The corner workers' contract specifically says that putting out fires is NOT THEIR JOB. The track HAS firemen, but they are not on the scene instantly, they have to drive a fire truck to your location. So you may get the first & best shot at putting it out.

Android356

Thanks for the good info! I'll put it to use.

kurt M

Are you sure you are not thinking of Halon? AFFF is a water based foam and there is considerable clean up after discharging one.

jmreiser

I could be wrong about the cleanup on AFFF. Do you (or anyone else here) know for sure?

Android356

I called Bob at Pegasus and he cleared things up. Here is the rundown on the two systems available. Upfront costs are about the same.

Halon - no longer available except to the government. The replacement is the FE-36. Buy it, install it and forget it. FIA approved. Drawback, on activation no oxegen to breath since it replaces it. Also does not prevent flashbacks.

AFFF - I guess the new standard, widely accepted by all sanctioning bodies. Drawback, its foam and some cleanup. Prevents flashbacks. The bottle does need to be recertified every two years. He said inspectors are looking at the certs more now. Oh, and you can breath while you are in there.

Talking it through with Bob (big thanks!) I went with the AFFF. A bit of maintenance but the benefits outweighed the cleanup. My $0.02 worth.
Thanks for all the help!

jmreiser

Cool

kurt M

Some misconceptions about Halon. Yes Halon is no longer being made but...there is a HUGE amount of it in place and I mean at present use rates over 100 years worth. It is still available to end users like us and spent bottles can be replaced. I replaced one this year. FE-36 and other related gasses are second to Halon in action. They require more material (some are 2 to 1 versus Halon) and higher concentrations in order to prevent combustion. In automotive race car use none of the gas based systems will likely displace all the O2 in the driver’s compartment. This issue is far more for the computer rooms and below decks on ships where Halon is/was widely used.
Set it and forget it is desirable in a critical system.

Chaos

Two motor(one fuel rail) two you. Face it the right direction and keep it protected in the event of a wreck.

davidhardy1

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harrywilson

Gemini Fire is a well established fire systems supplier, providing virtually all sizes of installations into a wide range of industrial and commercial market sectors. We are headquartered in Burgess Hill, West Sussex but have installed equipment throughout the UK and overseas. Where appropriate we can undertake work in Europe or Worldwide and can provide consultancy services internationally.

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Darkstar1

Isn't it time for Gemini Fire to sign up another Bozo to pimp for them on their first post?

GUMBALL

With ANY system, bigger is better. I would suggest a 2.5 to 3 liter. Mechanical is easier to refill.

Nozzles: For the engine, you want to cover the fuel system - whether it takes 1 or 2 nozzles. If you have a fuel cell, then 1 for the top. If running stock production with the standard tank, you can't get useful access. One nozzle for the cockpit.

Some points regarding AFFF:
>being water based, cleanup is just washing it out - hose or power washing. Think about it, if you DO have a fire, washing out the remaining extinguishant is the least of your worries.
>it does prevent re-ignition
>when mounting the nozzle in the cockpit, point it down and away from driver's face - or the foam will cover the visor.
>If one does get AFFF in the eyes, it is no worse than soapy water. AFFF is NOT toxic, corrosive or poisonous. But, being water based, it will freeze.

Regarding Halon/FE-36:
>it is difficult to achieve a sufficient concentration in a MOVING car to completely suppress combustion.
>these gasses work by suppressing oxygen, a heavy concentration in a closed cockpit may also suppress the driver.

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