Fire Suppression Systems
#1
Intermediate
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: San Diego
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Fire Suppression Systems
I'm putting together my track car and have been trying to figure out which way to go. Any input would be great. My questions are pros/cons on:
Mechanical versus electric activation. Chances of accidental firing?
Spa, Fire Bottle and AFF seem to be popular choices. Any issues with service after purchase, warranty etc. I know its a low maintenance item, but by chance you need help can you get it?
Seems most are saying 3 nozzles are good, 4 the best. Two for the motor, one for you and one for the gas tank or two for you. Opinions?
Anything else worth considering in the buildup?
Thanks in advance! Andy
Mechanical versus electric activation. Chances of accidental firing?
Spa, Fire Bottle and AFF seem to be popular choices. Any issues with service after purchase, warranty etc. I know its a low maintenance item, but by chance you need help can you get it?
Seems most are saying 3 nozzles are good, 4 the best. Two for the motor, one for you and one for the gas tank or two for you. Opinions?
Anything else worth considering in the buildup?
Thanks in advance! Andy
#2
I have had great results with the SPA AFFF electric trigger setup. Buy from Pegasus Auto Racing. Ask for Bob Clark.
My cars had Porsche factory fire system, which used a 2-nozzle 2-trigger bottle. Too expensive & too old to service. Converted easily to use a new 1-nozzle bottle.
Traditionally they aim one nozzle at the middle of the motor, one at the driver, and one at the fuel cell. I use 2 in the engine bay, one over each fuel rail. Bonus for a twin turbo it would also hose down the turbos, which is a good place for an oil fire in a turbo car. Don't ask me how I arrived at these conclusions.
AFFF is great. Nothing to clean up.
Anything else, yes, don't fire it accidentally.
My cars had Porsche factory fire system, which used a 2-nozzle 2-trigger bottle. Too expensive & too old to service. Converted easily to use a new 1-nozzle bottle.
Traditionally they aim one nozzle at the middle of the motor, one at the driver, and one at the fuel cell. I use 2 in the engine bay, one over each fuel rail. Bonus for a twin turbo it would also hose down the turbos, which is a good place for an oil fire in a turbo car. Don't ask me how I arrived at these conclusions.
AFFF is great. Nothing to clean up.
Anything else, yes, don't fire it accidentally.
#3
The electric ones are turned off after each track or dyno day so as to reduce the chances of accidental firing. The mechanical ones have a lock pin or whatever to achieve the same. The chances of an accidental firing are about even. It is a lot easier to run the switch(es) & wiring for the electrical setup vs a mechanical cable system, and later on if you add other gauges, lap timers, cameras, that mechanical fire cable may be in your way. Also true if you move a passenger's seat in & out.
I strongly recommend the 4L bottle. Around here (Watkins Glen), when you have a fire, they don't put it out, they hand you a bottle and tell you "hey buddy, you're on fire". The corner workers' contract specifically says that putting out fires is NOT THEIR JOB. The track HAS firemen, but they are not on the scene instantly, they have to drive a fire truck to your location. So you may get the first & best shot at putting it out.
I strongly recommend the 4L bottle. Around here (Watkins Glen), when you have a fire, they don't put it out, they hand you a bottle and tell you "hey buddy, you're on fire". The corner workers' contract specifically says that putting out fires is NOT THEIR JOB. The track HAS firemen, but they are not on the scene instantly, they have to drive a fire truck to your location. So you may get the first & best shot at putting it out.
#5
Mr. Excitement
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Are you sure you are not thinking of Halon? AFFF is a water based foam and there is considerable clean up after discharging one.
#7
Intermediate
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: San Diego
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I called Bob at Pegasus and he cleared things up. Here is the rundown on the two systems available. Upfront costs are about the same.
Halon - no longer available except to the government. The replacement is the FE-36. Buy it, install it and forget it. FIA approved. Drawback, on activation no oxegen to breath since it replaces it. Also does not prevent flashbacks.
AFFF - I guess the new standard, widely accepted by all sanctioning bodies. Drawback, its foam and some cleanup. Prevents flashbacks. The bottle does need to be recertified every two years. He said inspectors are looking at the certs more now. Oh, and you can breath while you are in there.
Talking it through with Bob (big thanks!) I went with the AFFF. A bit of maintenance but the benefits outweighed the cleanup. My $0.02 worth.
Thanks for all the help!
Halon - no longer available except to the government. The replacement is the FE-36. Buy it, install it and forget it. FIA approved. Drawback, on activation no oxegen to breath since it replaces it. Also does not prevent flashbacks.
AFFF - I guess the new standard, widely accepted by all sanctioning bodies. Drawback, its foam and some cleanup. Prevents flashbacks. The bottle does need to be recertified every two years. He said inspectors are looking at the certs more now. Oh, and you can breath while you are in there.
Talking it through with Bob (big thanks!) I went with the AFFF. A bit of maintenance but the benefits outweighed the cleanup. My $0.02 worth.
Thanks for all the help!
Trending Topics
#9
Mr. Excitement
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Halon - no longer available except to the government. The replacement is the FE-36. Buy it, install it and forget it. FIA approved. Drawback, on activation no oxegen to breath since it replaces it. Also does not prevent flashbacks.
Talking it through with Bob (big thanks!) I went with the AFFF. A bit of maintenance but the benefits outweighed the cleanup. My $0.02 worth.
Thanks for all the help!
Talking it through with Bob (big thanks!) I went with the AFFF. A bit of maintenance but the benefits outweighed the cleanup. My $0.02 worth.
Thanks for all the help!
Set it and forget it is desirable in a critical system.
#10
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Two motor(one fuel rail) two you. Face it the right direction and keep it protected in the event of a wreck.
#11
fire suppression systems*
Gemini Fire Management are specialist suppliers of fire Gas suppression systems and water leak detection systems for high value risk areas. Gas suppression system clients include major banks and IT companies.
fire suppression systems*
fire suppression systems*
#12
re: Default Fire Suppression Systems
Gemini Fire is a well established fire systems supplier, providing virtually all sizes of installations into a wide range of industrial and commercial market sectors. We are headquartered in Burgess Hill, West Sussex but have installed equipment throughout the UK and overseas. Where appropriate we can undertake work in Europe or Worldwide and can provide consultancy services internationally.
Fire Suppression Systems
Fire Suppression Systems
#14
Rennlist Member
With ANY system, bigger is better. I would suggest a 2.5 to 3 liter. Mechanical is easier to refill.
Nozzles: For the engine, you want to cover the fuel system - whether it takes 1 or 2 nozzles. If you have a fuel cell, then 1 for the top. If running stock production with the standard tank, you can't get useful access. One nozzle for the cockpit.
Some points regarding AFFF:
>being water based, cleanup is just washing it out - hose or power washing. Think about it, if you DO have a fire, washing out the remaining extinguishant is the least of your worries.
>it does prevent re-ignition
>when mounting the nozzle in the cockpit, point it down and away from driver's face - or the foam will cover the visor.
>If one does get AFFF in the eyes, it is no worse than soapy water. AFFF is NOT toxic, corrosive or poisonous. But, being water based, it will freeze.
Regarding Halon/FE-36:
>it is difficult to achieve a sufficient concentration in a MOVING car to completely suppress combustion.
>these gasses work by suppressing oxygen, a heavy concentration in a closed cockpit may also suppress the driver.
.
Nozzles: For the engine, you want to cover the fuel system - whether it takes 1 or 2 nozzles. If you have a fuel cell, then 1 for the top. If running stock production with the standard tank, you can't get useful access. One nozzle for the cockpit.
Some points regarding AFFF:
>being water based, cleanup is just washing it out - hose or power washing. Think about it, if you DO have a fire, washing out the remaining extinguishant is the least of your worries.
>it does prevent re-ignition
>when mounting the nozzle in the cockpit, point it down and away from driver's face - or the foam will cover the visor.
>If one does get AFFF in the eyes, it is no worse than soapy water. AFFF is NOT toxic, corrosive or poisonous. But, being water based, it will freeze.
Regarding Halon/FE-36:
>it is difficult to achieve a sufficient concentration in a MOVING car to completely suppress combustion.
>these gasses work by suppressing oxygen, a heavy concentration in a closed cockpit may also suppress the driver.
.
Last edited by GUMBALL; 11-20-2012 at 06:09 AM.