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Panamera 4 E-hybrid Owners Thread

 
Old 02-12-2019, 05:19 PM
  #1771  
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Hi,
I can't say that ithad become worse, but I do recognise your observations. Clunkiness is less but indeed breaking more spongy at times. I have not yet discovered exactly when it is firm and when spongy. Maybe the "heuristic" is more of a short term thing... if you drive sporty for a minute it will adapt and switch back as soon as you drive more relaxed.

I don't have experience with other hybrids, except a Prius , so can't say if the hybrid management was superior. But indeed the ICE switching is now more sensitive, it seems. Just as with the yellow warning in your face for a car in front that I mentioned before. A bit annoying and totally unnecessary, I can the car in front for myself.




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Old 02-13-2019, 04:56 PM
  #1772  
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Originally Posted by SaratogaLefty View Post
My car just went if to have the sun visor replaced (the little clip broke off). While it was there they also did the PDK Transmission software update. I wasn't really having any problem with the PDK except that when I was coming to a stop the shift into first gear sometimes made the car lurch forward somewhat and that could be disconcerting if I didn't have my foot on the brake hard. Now with the software update the lurch has gone away and it is very smooth. I never did hear any clunking as others have reported but I didn't like the lurching so I'm glad that has been eradicated.
My dealer claims to have never heard of PDK or brake software updates.
Do you by chance have your invoice to see what they put down for the service request?
Thanks!
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Old 02-14-2019, 04:19 AM
  #1773  
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Originally Posted by wmfrog View Post
My dealer claims to have never heard of PDK or brake software updates.
Do you by chance have your invoice to see what they put down for the service request?
Thanks!
The reference numbers for the warranty campaign/recall for the hybrid management, brakes and steering are:
1) AJ13
2) WJ83

The steering one was apparently the urgent one, as the steering, while travelling on battery, it could momentarily lose its power assistance, which I imagine would be pretty alarming.

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Old 02-24-2019, 07:01 PM
  #1774  
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Hi all, first post here from Northwest Arkansas.

Joined the forum because we are about to place an order on a 2019 Panamera 4 E-Hybrid - our first Porsche too. Just spent a good two weeks to read through this entire thread The Panamera will be for the wife, it's been her dream car since the first gen was released and now we can finally afford it.

Coming from a 2016 BMW X5 40e, we know pretty well what it's like owning a PHEV. And we loved the X5 despite its limited range (~10 miles) and significantly compromised trunk space. It's good to see owners here have been reporting ~20 miles range regularly, much more usable! Originally we were looking at 2019 Cayenne E-Hybrid but we are worried it will be delayed by EPA again. Also the test drive with Cayenne S left us underwhelmed - it feels quite a bit slower than an X5 50i and handling wasn't as good as advertised. We tried a base Panamera and an E-Hybrid and are pleasantly surprised how small this car drives, which was my wife's biggest concern. Also Panamera just looks so much better than Cayenne (sorry Cayenne owners).

We are currently negotiating between two dealers. Our build is ~$130K and so far we got 6% off MSRP. Doesn't feel like I can get much more than that, maybe another 0.5 to 1 percent. Also we have a few questions regarding the (sea of) options. Thanks in advance for any comments!
  • Read about the issue/challenge with tinting. Does Thermally & Noise Insulated Glass option eliminate the need for tint?
  • Does speed limit recognition require LKA? I read somewhere PDLS+ already gives you the camera behind rearview mirror, but unsure if it can actually read speed limit sign.
  • I saw a few members posting their charging station with the nice shroud (it's called charging dock I believe). However I don't see it in the online configurator. A change for 2019?



Our build
  • Volcano Grey Metallic
  • Standard Interior in Black/Luxor Beige (I'm a little unsure about beige, but wife doesn't like black and I haven't seen a Panemera with Agate Grey interior. Note we don't want to pay for full leather)
  • Premium Package Plus with PDLS+ Upgrade (Dealer confirmed full functionality can be unlocked once legislation catches up)
  • Assistance Package (Since we are getting HUD, want to maximize the usage with PID, Speed Limit, etc.)
  • Sport Tailpipes in Black
  • Power Steering Plus
  • 21" 911 Turbo Design Wheels (Can't believe you still have to pay extra to get colored center caps)
  • Wheel Center Caps with Colored Porsche Crest
  • ParkAssist (Front and Rear) incl. Surround View (Must have for the wife)
  • Head-Up Display (Must have for the wife)
  • 4-Zone Climate Control (Just for looks)
  • Ambient Lighting Plus (Can't believe I have to pay for this...)
  • Storage Package
  • Retractable Luggage Compartment Cover (Don't see it often but seems like you can easily retract the cover with having to remove it every time)
  • Power Sunblind for Rear Side Windows (For the kid)
  • Steering Wheel Heating
  • Supply Cable for NEMA 14-50 Electrical Socket
Final MSRP: $130,560
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Old 02-24-2019, 11:44 PM
  #1775  
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Originally Posted by ScreaM View Post
Hi all, first post here from Northwest Arkansas.

Joined the forum because we are about to place an order on a 2019 Panamera 4 E-Hybrid - our first Porsche too. Just spent a good two weeks to read through this entire thread The Panamera will be for the wife, it's been her dream car since the first gen was released and now we can finally afford it.

Coming from a 2016 BMW X5 40e, we know pretty well what it's like owning a PHEV. And we loved the X5 despite its limited range (~10 miles) and significantly compromised trunk space. It's good to see owners here have been reporting ~20 miles range regularly, much more usable! Originally we were looking at 2019 Cayenne E-Hybrid but we are worried it will be delayed by EPA again. Also the test drive with Cayenne S left us underwhelmed - it feels quite a bit slower than an X5 50i and handling wasn't as good as advertised. We tried a base Panamera and an E-Hybrid and are pleasantly surprised how small this car drives, which was my wife's biggest concern. Also Panamera just looks so much better than Cayenne (sorry Cayenne owners).

We are currently negotiating between two dealers. Our build is ~$130K and so far we got 6% off MSRP. Doesn't feel like I can get much more than that, maybe another 0.5 to 1 percent. Also we have a few questions regarding the (sea of) options. Thanks in advance for any comments!
  • Read about the issue/challenge with tinting. Does Thermally & Noise Insulated Glass option eliminate the need for tint?
  • Does speed limit recognition require LKA? I read somewhere PDLS+ already gives you the camera behind rearview mirror, but unsure if it can actually read speed limit sign.
  • I saw a few members posting their charging station with the nice shroud (it's called charging dock I believe). However I don't see it in the online configurator. A change for 2019?




Our build
  • Volcano Grey Metallic
  • Standard Interior in Black/Luxor Beige (I'm a little unsure about beige, but wife doesn't like black and I haven't seen a Panemera with Agate Grey interior. Note we don't want to pay for full leather)
  • Premium Package Plus with PDLS+ Upgrade (Dealer confirmed full functionality can be unlocked once legislation catches up)
  • Assistance Package (Since we are getting HUD, want to maximize the usage with PID, Speed Limit, etc.)
  • Sport Tailpipes in Black
  • Power Steering Plus
  • 21" 911 Turbo Design Wheels (Can't believe you still have to pay extra to get colored center caps)
  • Wheel Center Caps with Colored Porsche Crest
  • ParkAssist (Front and Rear) incl. Surround View (Must have for the wife)
  • Head-Up Display (Must have for the wife)
  • 4-Zone Climate Control (Just for looks)
  • Ambient Lighting Plus (Can't believe I have to pay for this...)
  • Storage Package
  • Retractable Luggage Compartment Cover (Don't see it often but seems like you can easily retract the cover with having to remove it every time)
  • Power Sunblind for Rear Side Windows (For the kid)
  • Steering Wheel Heating
  • Supply Cable for NEMA 14-50 Electrical Socket
Final MSRP: $130,560
I am also likely to be placing an order for an E hybrid Sport Turismo. This will be our second Panamera (using pull ahead to move on from a 2017 base panamera which we love but want the Sport Turismo.) Overall this will be my 6th Porsche. Here are my opinions on your build:

Take it with a grain of salt but I have been scouring inventory to try and get a deal on 2018 leftover stock. The single most common color seems to be volcano grey. Do what you will with that observation, and I do think itís a nice color, but our current panamera is carmine red and we are likely to go with an interesting color again.

We had standard interior now. We spent the day with a 4S with full leather. Itís worth the extra coin. Welcome to Porsche, where nothing is standard but itís all worth it.

4 zone climate control is not necessary unless you have passengers who need it or you intend to be driven in the car. Iíd skip it if you are speccing for looks. Use those dollars toward the full leather.

premium package plus is worth it as well. Not sure the PDLS+ will enhance your experience unless you drive in the woods or mountains on very dark roads. We live in the city and the standard LED headlights on our panamera are just as nice as the upgraded LED headlights on my GT3.

if you like steering feel skip power steering plus. It makes the steering more numb and feel worse in a car that you probably intend to have some fun with.

pro tip: tick the box for smokers package. It gets you an extra outlet for chargers in the storage box and doesnít cost anything.

sport tips are a good choice, but sport exhaust is also probably worth it if you value sound. Iíve had it on every Porsche except panamera because my wife doesnít use it. But, if you can fit it in the budget, itís worth it. If not, the tips are just fine too just less sound.

As for discounts I think 6% on a custom order seems okay. I bet you can do better. If youíre willing to find something on the lot, you can probably get more like 10% maybe 15%. I know of a turbo 178k build thatís languishing on a dealer lot that theyíll take 142k for which is a 20% discount. If you really like volcano grey my dealer has a 4S turismo that Iím sure theyíll do a deal on.

since youíre in a BMW you can get conquest incentives. I think thatís roughly 4K if not mistaken. So if your dealer will do 6% Iíd ask for at least 10% plus conquest. That would be 17k off and then you get the 7k tax credit. Lease and get it up front or get it back in taxes. When I crunched the numbers, if youíre debating lease vs buy, the lease will get you the 7k tax credit up front saving another 1k or so in interest over time, even if you buy out the lease. if paying cash, well then just get the 7k back on taxes.

The trouble with a special order is that the dealer has to give you an allocation for you to spec to your taste, and take that allocation out of their allotment for regular spec cars that they spec out in vanilla builds because theyíre easy to sell. Therefore, the discounts seem to be less generous. For the turismos Iím told they will be special order only from now on and dealers wonít order them for inventory anymore.

Make no mistake, you will find the best deal if you can accept dealer stock. Thereís tons of volcano grey languishing on dealer lots if you look. Just donít forget to ask for conquest money after you negotiate their discount and then factor the tax credit. Donít let them build that into ďtheirĒ discount.
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Old 02-25-2019, 01:34 AM
  #1776  
ScreaM
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Originally Posted by Johnny5Alive View Post


I am also likely to be placing an order for an E hybrid Sport Turismo. This will be our second Panamera (using pull ahead to move on from a 2017 base panamera which we love but want the Sport Turismo.) Overall this will be my 6th Porsche. Here are my opinions on your build:

Take it with a grain of salt but I have been scouring inventory to try and get a deal on 2018 leftover stock. The single most common color seems to be volcano grey. Do what you will with that observation, and I do think itís a nice color, but our current panamera is carmine red and we are likely to go with an interesting color again.

We had standard interior now. We spent the day with a 4S with full leather. Itís worth the extra coin. Welcome to Porsche, where nothing is standard but itís all worth it.

4 zone climate control is not necessary unless you have passengers who need it or you intend to be driven in the car. Iíd skip it if you are speccing for looks. Use those dollars toward the full leather.

premium package plus is worth it as well. Not sure the PDLS+ will enhance your experience unless you drive in the woods or mountains on very dark roads. We live in the city and the standard LED headlights on our panamera are just as nice as the upgraded LED headlights on my GT3.

if you like steering feel skip power steering plus. It makes the steering more numb and feel worse in a car that you probably intend to have some fun with.

pro tip: tick the box for smokers package. It gets you an extra outlet for chargers in the storage box and doesnít cost anything.

sport tips are a good choice, but sport exhaust is also probably worth it if you value sound. Iíve had it on every Porsche except panamera because my wife doesnít use it. But, if you can fit it in the budget, itís worth it. If not, the tips are just fine too just less sound.

As for discounts I think 6% on a custom order seems okay. I bet you can do better. If youíre willing to find something on the lot, you can probably get more like 10% maybe 15%. I know of a turbo 178k build thatís languishing on a dealer lot that theyíll take 142k for which is a 20% discount. If you really like volcano grey my dealer has a 4S turismo that Iím sure theyíll do a deal on.

since youíre in a BMW you can get conquest incentives. I think thatís roughly 4K if not mistaken. So if your dealer will do 6% Iíd ask for at least 10% plus conquest. That would be 17k off and then you get the 7k tax credit. Lease and get it up front or get it back in taxes. When I crunched the numbers, if youíre debating lease vs buy, the lease will get you the 7k tax credit up front saving another 1k or so in interest over time, even if you buy out the lease. if paying cash, well then just get the 7k back on taxes.

The trouble with a special order is that the dealer has to give you an allocation for you to spec to your taste, and take that allocation out of their allotment for regular spec cars that they spec out in vanilla builds because theyíre easy to sell. Therefore, the discounts seem to be less generous. For the turismos Iím told they will be special order only from now on and dealers wonít order them for inventory anymore.

Make no mistake, you will find the best deal if you can accept dealer stock. Thereís tons of volcano grey languishing on dealer lots if you look. Just donít forget to ask for conquest money after you negotiate their discount and then factor the tax credit. Donít let them build that into ďtheirĒ discount.
Thanks Johnny5Alive for the thorough reply! I will try to explain my rationale and for sure any input is welcomed.
  • Volcano Grey. Wife really likes the color, she tries to stay low key although I donít believe you can do that in a Panamera Carmin Red is lovely! I would pick it if itís my car (or Sapphire Blue).
  • Full Leather. If money is no issue Iíd go for Black/Chalk, purely for the color. We donít have special feeling towards leather, and after comparing full vs. partial leather interior, we donít think the difference worth $4K for us.
  • 4-zone climate control and PDLS+. Purely for looks. You make me rethink PDLS+, PDLS is a more sensible choice over limited PDLS+ for sure.
  • Power Steering Plus. Wife will need it, Iím indifferent
  • Smoker Package. Thereís really no storage available near the driver for changes etc so I plan to use the cubby for that
  • Sport Exhaust. Definitely not in the budget.
  • Order vs. Inventory. Iím a bit worried seeing some of the inventories were manufactured in 2017. Also we didnít really find one that meets our needs without adding too much extra. Plus wife really wants HUD which is a new option for 2019 (blame BMW for making her so used to it)
  • Conquest Program. I looked into it and itís actually not that easy to get. It requires my lease to mature within 180 days of taking delivery, and limits up to 3 payments of up to $1500 each.

Again, thanks for your reply. Itís the options, endless possibilities, and budgeting make ordering process so fun and painful at the same time haha.
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Old 02-25-2019, 04:46 AM
  #1777  
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Porsche sales are apparently down close to 40% in the UK. Walking into my dealer is like boarding the Marie Celeste. They have obviously let quite a few staff go. I suspect Porsche may have jumped the gun a bit on coming out of diesel and their drop in sales may outweigh any greenwash benefit they get after the "VW Group Dieselgate". The diesel V8 Panamera I was lent a few times, was a spectacularly good car. It would have been a difficult decision for me between the hybrid and the diesel V8, had they kept it in production.

The braking and the engine response on my post software upgrade has now improved. It was obviously just a very slow learner. I still don't like the new hybrid settings where the ICE fires up at the drop of a hat.

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Old 02-25-2019, 05:03 AM
  #1778  
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the reason why porsche sales have dropped, particularly in Europe, is because of the new emission tests - WLTP. Porsche literally had no car to sell as of September 2018 because only a handful model/engine combinations were available to sell.The situation is improving now but the backlog of order is just terrible - Macans sold out for this year, Cayenne delivery at the end of the year, Panamera e-hybrid not available for order in Q4 2018 etc...
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Old 02-25-2019, 06:02 AM
  #1779  
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Originally Posted by rsyed View Post
the reason why porsche sales have dropped, particularly in Europe, is because of the new emission tests - WLTP. Porsche literally had no car to sell as of September 2018 because only a handful model/engine combinations were available to sell.The situation is improving now but the backlog of order is just terrible - Macans sold out for this year, Cayenne delivery at the end of the year, Panamera e-hybrid not available for order in Q4 2018 etc...
I am sure that WLTP was a large factor but I feel it is more than that in the UK. Say a few years ago, when I was in my dealer, which I have used for the last 15 years, there were always a few potential customers wandering around, opening car doors, "kicking the tyres" and looking at the leaflets. Now - none or only very occasionally. I would guess that most Porsches are bought in the UK by the owners or directors of businesses. Most of these folks will be sitting on their hands until such time as our wonderful politicians "digitum extractum" and sort Brexit out one way or another. I am very glad I am retired and not running a business now but I do own a house in France as well as the UK. What will happen about my usual 5 month stay in France each summer, is anyone's guess (International Driving Permit, Green Card Insurance, Resident's Permit for stay over 90 days maximum in any 180 day period and so on).

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Old 02-25-2019, 06:04 AM
  #1780  
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guess we will know more in 32 days :-)
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Old 02-26-2019, 12:17 AM
  #1781  
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Originally Posted by ScreaM View Post


Thanks Johnny5Alive for the thorough reply! I will try to explain my rationale and for sure any input is welcomed.
  • Volcano Grey. Wife really likes the color, she tries to stay low key although I don’t believe you can do that in a Panamera Carmin Red is lovely! I would pick it if it’s my car (or Sapphire Blue).
  • Full Leather. If money is no issue I’d go for Black/Chalk, purely for the color. We don’t have special feeling towards leather, and after comparing full vs. partial leather interior, we don’t think the difference worth $4K for us.
  • 4-zone climate control and PDLS+. Purely for looks. You make me rethink PDLS+, PDLS is a more sensible choice over limited PDLS+ for sure.
  • Power Steering Plus. Wife will need it, I’m indifferent
  • Smoker Package. There’s really no storage available near the driver for changes etc so I plan to use the cubby for that
  • Sport Exhaust. Definitely not in the budget.
  • Order vs. Inventory. I’m a bit worried seeing some of the inventories were manufactured in 2017. Also we didn’t really find one that meets our needs without adding too much extra. Plus wife really wants HUD which is a new option for 2019 (blame BMW for making her so used to it)
  • Conquest Program. I looked into it and it’s actually not that easy to get. It requires my lease to mature within 180 days of taking delivery, and limits up to 3 payments of up to $1500 each.

Again, thanks for your reply. It’s the options, endless possibilities, and budgeting make ordering process so fun and painful at the same time haha.


I'd nix the 4-zone climate control and PDLS+. There are four vents in the rear anyway, with controls. I have the standard PDLS, and it's plenty fine. Save your money.
My wife has no problems with the standard power steering; save your money on that, too. Plenty of exhaust sound standard on the Pan4 E-Hybrid, no need for sport exhaust.
I agree with you on the smoker package; I didn't order it, and it was installed accidentally in the factory, and I'd prefer to have the extra storage space. I'd also go ahead with special-order, to get what you want; I rarely like what dealers put in their showroom/lot cars that they design themselves -- possibly one reason they have troubles selling a lot of them.
I had agate-grey interior on my 2015 Panamera, and have the black in my 2018 4E-Hybrid, and either is fine; I'm happy with the black that i ordered, and am ordering black in my forthcoming 2019 Macan, as well.
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Old 02-26-2019, 12:23 AM
  #1782  
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cometguy I have to disagree on the sports exhaust, I have had a 2018 without and now have a 2018 with the sports exhaust and there is a huge difference in the sound at higher RPM and lots of popping when taking your foot off the gas, I LOVE the sports exhaust, I agree with the rest.
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Old 02-26-2019, 04:35 AM
  #1783  
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Originally Posted by cometguy View Post
I'd nix the 4-zone climate control and PDLS+. There are four vents in the rear anyway, with controls. I have the standard PDLS, and it's plenty fine. Save your money.
My wife has no problems with the standard power steering; save your money on that, too. Plenty of exhaust sound standard on the Pan4 E-Hybrid, no need for sport exhaust.
I agree with you on the smoker package; I didn't order it, and it was installed accidentally in the factory, and I'd prefer to have the extra storage space. I'd also go ahead with special-order, to get what you want; I rarely like what dealers put in their showroom/lot cars that they design themselves -- possibly one reason they have troubles selling a lot of them.
I had agate-grey interior on my 2015 Panamera, and have the black in my 2018 4E-Hybrid, and either is fine; I'm happy with the black that i ordered, and am ordering black in my forthcoming 2019 Macan, as well.
Don't you find that black leather upholstery gets painfully hot if left parked in the sun? Back in the mid 2000's, I had a Silver 996 Turbo which had black upholstery and the carbon interior kit/steering wheel. I have no garage at my south of France house and no matter where I park it next to trees, at some point it is going to get sun on the interior. I found it got hot enough to be painful if I got in wearing short trousers/pants. I used to have to drape a cloth over the black carbon steering wheel when parked, as it got hot enough to burn your hands.

Back in August 2017, when I originally ordered an e-Hybrid Sport Turismo and then discovered the magic moving delivery date, which ended up months beyond the date, when I had committed to pass on my 997 Turbo S to its new owner, I started to look at what might be available as ex-dealer demo Panameras, e-Hybrid, diesel or Turbo. In the UK over 90% of these demo cars had black upholstery, which from past experience in France, ruled them out for me. Ideally I would have like the chalk two tone interior but the cancelled order I came across at my dealer, with the brick red leather is OK in France, as long as I remember to shut the two roof blinds.

Wilson
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Old 02-26-2019, 06:33 AM
  #1784  
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I agree with Johnny5alive

I opted for PDLS+ purely for looks and darker headlamps. Don't really use it.
4 zone is pointless unless you have kids or passengers in the back a lot. There's just two in my car mostly ( +the dog in the boot)

Sports exhaust, its definitely different to standard, I previously had a 2015 S E-hybrid, sports exhaust was first thing I ticked on the build.
I agree - not cheap but it puts more smiles on my face than anything else.

I have ambient colour changing, but again, once you set your colours, its not like you ever bother changing it - in hindsight I would swap this for heated steering wheel.
It was only ordered to make my car close cost to my biz partners car.

Power steering+ , not sure why you would need this unless for health reasons to park easier, and you will lose some driver feel.


Someone once pointed out "cost per use" to me ( actually not about cars), but on this car I considered it. - cost per use versus external looks and smiles on my face.
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Old 02-26-2019, 01:24 PM
  #1785  
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Originally Posted by Wilson Laidlaw View Post
Don't you find that black leather upholstery gets painfully hot if left parked in the sun? Back in the mid 2000's, I had a Silver 996 Turbo which had black upholstery and the carbon interior kit/steering wheel. I have no garage at my south of France house and no matter where I park it next to trees, at some point it is going to get sun on the interior. I found it got hot enough to be painful if I got in wearing short trousers/pants. I used to have to drape a cloth over the black carbon steering wheel when parked, as it got hot enough to burn your hands.

Back in August 2017, when I originally ordered an e-Hybrid Sport Turismo and then discovered the magic moving delivery date, which ended up months beyond the date, when I had committed to pass on my 997 Turbo S to its new owner, I started to look at what might be available as ex-dealer demo Panameras, e-Hybrid, diesel or Turbo. In the UK over 90% of these demo cars had black upholstery, which from past experience in France, ruled them out for me. Ideally I would have like the chalk two tone interior but the cancelled order I came across at my dealer, with the brick red leather is OK in France, as long as I remember to shut the two roof blinds.

Wilson

Don't forget about the Car Connect Climate Control, I use mine all the time but for the opposite reason, I'm in the snow in Canada and when we visit friends and have to park on the street there is nothing better than running the climate control app 1/2 hour before you leave and then jumping into a toasty warm car :-) I love that option.
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