Any of you guys ever driven a Ferrari 360?
08-13-2006, 11:14 PM
#31
Nordschleife Master
Originally Posted by icon
gretto,
that stuff is nothing but lip service for the customers that don't like paying a premium.
if ferrari gets a higher percentage of cars to the end user at a cheaper price then what will happen to resale? it will drop relative to purchase price.
how will that benefit ferrari's bottom line? how will that benefit ferrari's image?
what kind of goodwill will that create with previous owners who paid premiums?
how will that benefit dealers? a lot of ferrari's status is based on their resale value relative to msrp.
which looks real good until you consider what the average end user actually paid, relative to msrp.
if they dropped the allocations of a u.s. dealer precipitously, then the dealer would just haul them into u.s. court.
ferrari's known about the secondary market practices for years.
now they're going to plead ignorance in a u.s. court room? wonder who would win? in the end nothing will change.
if you want a new ferrari you will have to wait and pay msrp, or pay a premium, or wait and pay a premium.
and there will still be plenty of low mileage "used ferrari's" on the sencondary market.
btw, it's nice having you back to debate with!
599 deposit for a spyder?
jeff
that stuff is nothing but lip service for the customers that don't like paying a premium.
if ferrari gets a higher percentage of cars to the end user at a cheaper price then what will happen to resale? it will drop relative to purchase price.
how will that benefit ferrari's bottom line? how will that benefit ferrari's image?
what kind of goodwill will that create with previous owners who paid premiums?
how will that benefit dealers? a lot of ferrari's status is based on their resale value relative to msrp.
which looks real good until you consider what the average end user actually paid, relative to msrp.
if they dropped the allocations of a u.s. dealer precipitously, then the dealer would just haul them into u.s. court.
ferrari's known about the secondary market practices for years.
now they're going to plead ignorance in a u.s. court room? wonder who would win? in the end nothing will change.
if you want a new ferrari you will have to wait and pay msrp, or pay a premium, or wait and pay a premium.
and there will still be plenty of low mileage "used ferrari's" on the sencondary market.
btw, it's nice having you back to debate with!
599 deposit for a spyder?jeff
As far as previous customers, F is concerned most about their loyal guys who buy over and over again from their loyal dealers. This isn't a plentiful commodity here, they can sell all they make and more so it is a supply driven issue.If some guy pays 80 over from a non-F dealer or a private party, why should F worry about them? In fact what they are saying is that they dont want their dealers to be part of that. They want to protect their long-term relationships. I realize that may not be the thiking of a typical publically traded company but they are not in that bind. They are in a unique niche and want to do business their way. I see nothing wrong with that.
Porsche's approach is different and I see nothing wrong with that either. Porsche has different goals.
I don't think the dealers are BS'ing on this and I don't think they are inclined to call FNA's bluff. But we'll see I guess.
Not sure what you meant in the last line. My plan is to keep the Spyder, she's a honey! I will be expanding my garage though!
08-14-2006, 12:03 AM
#32
Actually Icon I believe that the used resale will actually be higher. Right now, enough F-cars are being turned around after 1-6 mths for 85k profit for a spider.
But if more "loyal" customers who don't dump their cars after 6 mths but keep their cars for years, there'll be fewer in the market and this will drive tthe prices higher than it is now even. My problem is not the price but the principle of MSRP not being adhered to. If ferrari changed the MSRP to the market for the car, I'd pay if I thought it worthwhile. But for a dealer to inflate artificially through using flippers, well I won't join the crowd.
But if more "loyal" customers who don't dump their cars after 6 mths but keep their cars for years, there'll be fewer in the market and this will drive tthe prices higher than it is now even. My problem is not the price but the principle of MSRP not being adhered to. If ferrari changed the MSRP to the market for the car, I'd pay if I thought it worthwhile. But for a dealer to inflate artificially through using flippers, well I won't join the crowd.
Originally Posted by icon
gretto,
how will that benefit dealers? a lot of ferrari's status is based on their resale value relative to msrp.
which looks real good until you consider what the average end user actually paid, relative to msrp.
if you want a new ferrari you will have to wait and pay msrp, or pay a premium, or wait and pay a premium.
and there will still be plenty of low mileage "used ferrari's" on the sencondary market.
btw, it's nice having you back to debate with! 599 deposit for a spyder?
jeff
how will that benefit dealers? a lot of ferrari's status is based on their resale value relative to msrp.
which looks real good until you consider what the average end user actually paid, relative to msrp.
if you want a new ferrari you will have to wait and pay msrp, or pay a premium, or wait and pay a premium.
and there will still be plenty of low mileage "used ferrari's" on the sencondary market.
btw, it's nice having you back to debate with!
599 deposit for a spyder?jeff
08-14-2006, 03:05 AM
#33
Straight to Video
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How bout Lambo Gayardo? (i know its spelled differently but thats how its pronounced) I always had a thing for those cars even over hottest F-cars.
This will be my next car but in lime green!
SAWEEEEEEEEEEEET:
This will be my next car but in lime green!
SAWEEEEEEEEEEEET:
08-14-2006, 11:16 AM
#35
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A Gallardo just edged out a 430 and 997TT in an Evo (UK) comparo test. Granted it's a magazine, but something to consider. I always thought the Gallardo was a fast, wild-looking Audi (not that it's a bad thing).
08-14-2006, 05:24 PM
#36
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by frayed
No offense to lambo owners, but they look like a spaceship. Too hard edged bodywork, and two too many wheels doing the driving.
until your post about awd i wasnt aware that was the case.
so you can't even buy a rwd lambo? wierd!
never looked that closely at lambo's b/c if i were to purchase an
italian exotic i would have to go with a ferrari.
lambo does come up with some neat colors though!
jeff
08-14-2006, 06:33 PM
#38
GT3 player par excellence
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Originally Posted by frayed
Crazy colors, agreed.
I'm working a deal on an 2004 Ferrari right now. **** these things cost some serious coin. Not sure if I can pull the trigger.
I'm working a deal on an 2004 Ferrari right now. **** these things cost some serious coin. Not sure if I can pull the trigger.
oh, yeah, i'll fly in to beg a ride.
08-15-2006, 01:44 AM
#40
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I'm buying a 2004 360 tomorrow myself. I was thinking of getting a GT3 then a turbo, but I finally got a chance to drive a 360 Spider this Saturday.
It was such an amazing car, I don't even mind the substantial increase in cost. The sound alone almost makes up the difference. In addition although the 360 may not seem to have any real advantage over the 997S on paper, it just seems so much more exciting. It appears to have a lot more power and seems to be much more planted (if that is the right word) than the 997.
I have owned 4 911s over the last several years (964, 996, 997). I have found all of them to be great cars (hated the 996 interior though), but as I started looking at more expensive Porsches, I decided to look at what Ferrari had to offer.
All I can say to fellow 997 owners is if you are convinced the 997 S is a superior car in almost every respect don't ever drive one of those Italian cars.
If anyone has an interest in an un-installed smartop for the 997, send me a PM. I bought one in the recent group buy and have never installed it. It now appears I never will.
It was such an amazing car, I don't even mind the substantial increase in cost. The sound alone almost makes up the difference. In addition although the 360 may not seem to have any real advantage over the 997S on paper, it just seems so much more exciting. It appears to have a lot more power and seems to be much more planted (if that is the right word) than the 997.
I have owned 4 911s over the last several years (964, 996, 997). I have found all of them to be great cars (hated the 996 interior though), but as I started looking at more expensive Porsches, I decided to look at what Ferrari had to offer.
All I can say to fellow 997 owners is if you are convinced the 997 S is a superior car in almost every respect don't ever drive one of those Italian cars.
If anyone has an interest in an un-installed smartop for the 997, send me a PM. I bought one in the recent group buy and have never installed it. It now appears I never will.
08-15-2006, 08:34 PM
#41
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I have a 360 CS. It's my first Ferrari and I wouldn't trade it for anything (maybe a Mclaren F1 ). The steering has the best feel and communication of any car I have ever driven. The engine/exhaust sound is intoxicating. The looks and the details are somthing the Italians value just as much as the mechanicals, it's not just form follows function but form and function get equal billing. I love Porsche's but the Ferrari is just at a completely different level for me. Yes, the maintenance costs are high but the cars hold their value very well.
). The steering has the best feel and communication of any car I have ever driven. The engine/exhaust sound is intoxicating. The looks and the details are somthing the Italians value just as much as the mechanicals, it's not just form follows function but form and function get equal billing. I love Porsche's but the Ferrari is just at a completely different level for me. Yes, the maintenance costs are high but the cars hold their value very well.
08-15-2006, 10:19 PM
#45
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I have had the experience of driving my GT3 back to back with a CS at Buttonwillow. Each cars lap times were within 1/10 of a second (my GT3 was also on R compounds). I loved my GT3 but the CS was an amazing experience. For another data point, I am friends with one of the Flying Lizard drivers. He was a bit faster in the GT3 vs the CS at Thunderhill but then again he is RSR experienced.
Regardless of lap times, I loved the CS. It was totally alive, the brakes were awesome, and the paddle shifter was fun and oh....did I mention the sound! Although, I think I would eventually miss the heel toe part of the game. I also, had the opportunity to drive the regular 360 at Buttonwillow. It was also extremely alive. The big difference compared to the CS was the suspension and especially the brakes. The 360's brakes were less than impressive.
For around town as a daily driver, I can give you the experience of a buddy of mine who had a GT2, traded it for a CS and then went back to the GT2. He is a very low key guy, doesn't do a lot of track work and really loved the CS. However, when he was driving around SF he got too much attention (not the best kind either) and basically said "I don't need this". Thus, he went back to the GT2.
Regardless of lap times, I loved the CS. It was totally alive, the brakes were awesome, and the paddle shifter was fun and oh....did I mention the sound! Although, I think I would eventually miss the heel toe part of the game. I also, had the opportunity to drive the regular 360 at Buttonwillow. It was also extremely alive. The big difference compared to the CS was the suspension and especially the brakes. The 360's brakes were less than impressive.
For around town as a daily driver, I can give you the experience of a buddy of mine who had a GT2, traded it for a CS and then went back to the GT2. He is a very low key guy, doesn't do a lot of track work and really loved the CS. However, when he was driving around SF he got too much attention (not the best kind either) and basically said "I don't need this". Thus, he went back to the GT2.