I test drove the Lotus Emira
#76
I honestly have no opinion about the engine thing . . . if it is a good engine, would not matter to me who made it
This might be off-topic, but doesn't Toyota use a BMW (B58) inline six in their Supra, which seems to be a wildly popular car?
So, Toyota borrows an inline six for their Supra, and Lotus borrows a V6 from Toyota for their Emira . . . that seems strange
Avera
This might be off-topic, but doesn't Toyota use a BMW (B58) inline six in their Supra, which seems to be a wildly popular car?
So, Toyota borrows an inline six for their Supra, and Lotus borrows a V6 from Toyota for their Emira . . . that seems strange
Avera
Last edited by M718R; 12-05-2022 at 02:20 PM.
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Avera (12-05-2022)
#77
I believe it was a requirement in order for it to be co-made by BMW/Toyota, it had to have a BMW powertrain. To be honest the supra is pretty much all BMW, including interior, engine, transmission and built in Graz, Austria. Everything was set up from the beginning to be BMW. The supra is pretty far away from being a Japanese car, apart from its exterior design.
Thank you
Avera
P.S. So what does Toyota actually use their V6 for that Lotus thought it would be so good in their sport car?
Last edited by Avera; 12-05-2022 at 02:21 PM.
#78
I believe it was a requirement in order for it to be co-made by BMW/Toyota, it had to have a BMW powertrain. To be honest the supra is pretty much all BMW, including interior, engine, transmission and built in Graz, Austria. Everything was set up from the beginning to be BMW. The supra is pretty far away from being a Japanese car, apart from it's exterior design.
#79
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_GR_engine#2GR
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Avera (12-05-2022)
#80
The 3.5L V6 naturally aspirated engine is used at some point / version in almost all Toyota/Lexus products. It's the 2GR-FE version which lotus use. The link below shows every vehicle that has received a 6 cylinder GR V6 Toyota engine. It's literally in everything, hence why it is considered one of the greatest V6 motors ever engineered, regularly breaking over 300K miles. Impressive, from a reliability standpoint.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_GR_engine#2GR
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_GR_engine#2GR
Oddly, I have spent the better part of my time in Central Florida over the past two years and have yet to see a single other GT4 on the road. There is a Spyder I see roaming around, but not a single GT4 in over two years.
Avera
Last edited by Avera; 12-05-2022 at 02:44 PM.
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M718R (12-05-2022)
#81
I feel like lotus as a company is more akin to small more bespoke motoring companies like Ariel which used a Honda and I believe ford engines at some point. Obviously they're trying to shift to a broader marker since they're now backed by Geely. Little point in the company developing their own engine especially since they made the dedication to move all electric following the emira. I have an 07 exige and I'm low key glad I got in when it still had the high revving 2zz engine. A big deal breaker for me for the emira is actually the size/support of the dealer network.
#82
I feel like lotus as a company is more akin to small more bespoke motoring companies like Ariel which used a Honda and I believe ford engines at some point. Obviously they're trying to shift to a broader marker since they're now backed by Geely. Little point in the company developing their own engine especially since they made the dedication to move all electric following the emira. I have an 07 exige and I'm low key glad I got in when it still had the high revving 2zz engine. A big deal breaker for me for the emira is actually the size/support of the dealer network.
#83
Thank you again. . . I am obviously not up to date when it comes to the Toyota/Lexus offerings. I should be because I would venture to say Toyota/Lexus offerings are the most popular cars on the road in my neck of the woods (Central Florida). They are EVERYWHERE.
Oddly, I have spent the better part of my time in Central Florida over the past two years and have yet to see a single other GT4 on the road. There is a Spyder I see roaming around, but not a single GT4 in over two years.
Avera
Oddly, I have spent the better part of my time in Central Florida over the past two years and have yet to see a single other GT4 on the road. There is a Spyder I see roaming around, but not a single GT4 in over two years.
Avera
Peter
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Avera (12-05-2022)
#84
#85
Not sure if you read my post but I clearly mentioned that the Evora, GT4 and Spyder are all miles above my GTS4.0 for feel. I like old school, analog feeling cars. Lotus fits the bill very well for me, so do some other Porsche models but none of those are currently available to me.
EDIT: posted before reading rest of the thread's drama.... oh, well.
Last edited by unclemat; 12-05-2022 at 08:07 PM.
#86
I think you are slightly missing the point. I like the Emira overall. As I said, its a pretty car, and afaic, better looking than many of the mid engine exotics that go for much higher price tags. I do feel the engine is a let down. And I’m not saying the Toyota V6 is a bad engine. But it is a commonplace V6 that resides in almost every 6 cylinder based Toyota and redlines at around 6800. That is hardly my definition of an exciting sports car engine. Hence pedestrian, which I think is a very accurate descriptor.
Now if Lotus just used the Toyota engine block and created it’s own high revving bespoke version of the V6 I would have a different opinion. A car that looks as good as the Emira should have a more exciting race or sports car inspired engine. Maybe the AMG engine despite being 4 cylinders will be just the thing. Lotus has a history with high output turbo 4s so it would be fitting. I’d love to see the Alfa quadrifoglio engine in Emira. That would be a beast and well worth whatever premium such an engine would garner imo.
Now if Lotus just used the Toyota engine block and created it’s own high revving bespoke version of the V6 I would have a different opinion. A car that looks as good as the Emira should have a more exciting race or sports car inspired engine. Maybe the AMG engine despite being 4 cylinders will be just the thing. Lotus has a history with high output turbo 4s so it would be fitting. I’d love to see the Alfa quadrifoglio engine in Emira. That would be a beast and well worth whatever premium such an engine would garner imo.
I don't think 400HP is pedestrian. I have driven an Exige 390 Sport around a track while in England, let me tell you that thing is outrageous. Gave me a completely different perception of a Toyota V6. I'm not trying to argue your point, but just making an observation that the besides a Cayman GTS/GT4, no one else is making a 3200 lbs/400 HP/mid-engine manual sports car, that looks far better/exotic than anything else in its class. Anyone that does not at least appreciate what Lotus did with the Emira can not be looking the C8 at it objectively. I know, I know I'm on a Porsche forum, which I own one and love. I guess I like the fact that there is a Toyota V6 in there instead of a BMW turbo.
Also check out the Lotus Radford 62-2... It has the same Toyota V6, albeit tuned differently. Hardly pedestrian.
Also check out the Lotus Radford 62-2... It has the same Toyota V6, albeit tuned differently. Hardly pedestrian.
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#87
The Alfa/Ferrari engine in a Lotus? It's little hard to process the idea of such crossbreeding, but sounds crazy appealing.
EDIT: then maybe not. One allure of Toyota engine is reliability...
EDIT: then maybe not. One allure of Toyota engine is reliability...
Last edited by unclemat; 12-05-2022 at 09:40 PM.
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manifold danger (12-06-2022)
#88
I think you are slightly missing the point. I like the Emira overall. As I said, its a pretty car, and afaic, better looking than many of the mid engine exotics that go for much higher price tags. I do feel the engine is a let down. And I’m not saying the Toyota V6 is a bad engine. But it is a commonplace V6 that resides in almost every 6 cylinder based Toyota and redlines at around 6800. That is hardly my definition of an exciting sports car engine. Hence pedestrian, which I think is a very accurate descriptor.
Now if Lotus just used the Toyota engine block and created it’s own high revving bespoke version of the V6 I would have a different opinion. A car that looks as good as the Emira should have a more exciting race or sports car inspired engine. Maybe the AMG engine despite being 4 cylinders will be just the thing. Lotus has a history with high output turbo 4s so it would be fitting. I’d love to see the Alfa quadrifoglio engine in Emira. That would be a beast and well worth whatever premium such an engine would garner imo.
Now if Lotus just used the Toyota engine block and created it’s own high revving bespoke version of the V6 I would have a different opinion. A car that looks as good as the Emira should have a more exciting race or sports car inspired engine. Maybe the AMG engine despite being 4 cylinders will be just the thing. Lotus has a history with high output turbo 4s so it would be fitting. I’d love to see the Alfa quadrifoglio engine in Emira. That would be a beast and well worth whatever premium such an engine would garner imo.
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Underblu (12-05-2022)
#89
Just wait for that AMG 2.0 engine with a stage 1 or 2 on it. Probably looking at a 500HP+ Emira
The Toyota V6 SC whilst reliable, is bland and boring. 6500 redline is too low. The AMG engine, whilst massive power, is also rather boring in terms of redline and sound. They should have taken the Audi 2.5 IL5 engine in the RS3.... that's a great engine!
The Toyota V6 SC whilst reliable, is bland and boring. 6500 redline is too low. The AMG engine, whilst massive power, is also rather boring in terms of redline and sound. They should have taken the Audi 2.5 IL5 engine in the RS3.... that's a great engine!
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manifold danger (12-06-2022)
#90
I have such a love and passion for both these manufacturers — I felt the need to share my opinion. It is just that….an opinion.
I’ve owned three Eliges (Elise and 2 Exiges), an Evora S and numerous mid engine Porsches. Highlights being a 987 Spyder, 981 GTS and current GT4. I agree with what most have said. Lotus is superior in steering compared to the modern Porsche and Porsche is superior in the engine/transmission department. Where I differ I guess is that to me the Exige (particularly the n/a variant from 2006) is the most visceral and connected car I’ve ever driven. It’s a low bucket seats sitting car with a low placed high revving mid-engine and silly wing. To me the closest thing to that is the Cayman GT4. I feel the GT4 is more of a grown up Exige than the Evora was. And I’ve driven the GT numerous times. I still obsessed over the decision on whether to get the Evora GT or the 718 GT4. Ultimately the Porsche won out. To me $100k+ for a low revving Toyota Engine was a tough pill to swallow compared to the Porsche engine. I feel the same about the Emira. I wouldn’t get it with the same engine essentially as a 2010 Evora with a supercharger attached. I am far more interested in the AMG engine in a stripped out “GT4” variant. That’d be the only car that could possibly get me out of the GT4.
Now if Lotus would’ve brought the Evora GT430 out here with the bucket seats and ohlins…..that’d been a real tough decision.
I’ve owned three Eliges (Elise and 2 Exiges), an Evora S and numerous mid engine Porsches. Highlights being a 987 Spyder, 981 GTS and current GT4. I agree with what most have said. Lotus is superior in steering compared to the modern Porsche and Porsche is superior in the engine/transmission department. Where I differ I guess is that to me the Exige (particularly the n/a variant from 2006) is the most visceral and connected car I’ve ever driven. It’s a low bucket seats sitting car with a low placed high revving mid-engine and silly wing. To me the closest thing to that is the Cayman GT4. I feel the GT4 is more of a grown up Exige than the Evora was. And I’ve driven the GT numerous times. I still obsessed over the decision on whether to get the Evora GT or the 718 GT4. Ultimately the Porsche won out. To me $100k+ for a low revving Toyota Engine was a tough pill to swallow compared to the Porsche engine. I feel the same about the Emira. I wouldn’t get it with the same engine essentially as a 2010 Evora with a supercharger attached. I am far more interested in the AMG engine in a stripped out “GT4” variant. That’d be the only car that could possibly get me out of the GT4.
Now if Lotus would’ve brought the Evora GT430 out here with the bucket seats and ohlins…..that’d been a real tough decision.
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M718R (12-06-2022)