M758

TD don't feel bad.

In my 3rd race I got held off by a slower in class car. I had the speed, but he schooled me in race craft badly. I had 1 pass move and he defended perfectly the entire race. I was left stumped. That was May 2002. Now 60+ races later I have 15 different ways I could pass that guy. It has taken along time however to pickup stuff like that and two key has been racing in mixed groups (both faster and slowe cars in group) and lots of close in class competition.

Bryan Watts

On the other hand, I find that often even the most accomplished DE warriors who THINK they have been driving the limit are opened up to an entirely different world when they start going head to head for laptimes in club racing (you can believe you are pushing and pushing at a DE, but you never really understand what driving 100% is until you are going at it W2W...suddenly you can't hold up a bit while waiting on a pass signal or breath off the throttle 40 feet early on your way into a corner). Some become humbled and strive to improve...others keep talking about how fast they are and making excuses when they can't keep up.

M758

Quite true. In DE land it is easy to be a Michael Schumacher or a Senna.

Not so when you are on the clock and start racing.

TD in DC

My problem is worse than that. I got so frustrated by the situation that I essentially took myself out of the race by just "sunday driving." I kept trying to get runs on the faster car (a 968), but no matter what I did, the car could stay in front of me on the straights. This has happened before in past races with this same car, so you can see how hard I am trying to keep the car behind me at the beginning of the race, but there is only so much I felt I could get away with doing. I should have been ueber aggressive and divebombed him, but I like my car and am not comfortable enough to do that yet. But I will soon. Since I could not get around him, and we were driving at a pace that was about 4 seconds off my average DE pace, I just sorta gave up. It is very, apparent in this video. I was pissed because he is not in my racing class, and he was separating me from racing the black 944 in front of him, who was. If I were a better racer, I would have "made" a way around him. Here is a quintassential noob effort, but at least I don't claim to be fast or pro material. I very much belong in HWFM racing. http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...12344864&hl=en

I do still think I am a little over class weight. It doesn't excuse my stunningly poor performance, but it does explain why the other spec cars can scoot away from me.

Andrie Hartanto

Frank,
since my 1:51.x was unofficial, and I have no way in proving it, let's just forget about it.

I'm just stating facts:

I laid down 1:52.554 in February of 2004, before the resurface. I also did this in a stock type-R motor exception of Toda B cams.

for some reason I can't post a link here. Lap time can be found on mylaps page, NASA Norcal Infineon 2/7/04 on sunday race

I raced it again a few times, then I sold the car to my team-mate, Kenji in Summer of 2004. Kenji replaced the motor in fall of 2005, when he blew the motor mis-shifted at Thunderhill. Since we needed to build new motor, we decided to improved it by raising the compression by using CTR pistons, and port polish the head. The result is an improvement of about 20HP. It dynoed at 199 HP at that time.

I borrowed the car in late of 2006 to race in Thunderhill, not Infineon. We did have some engine problem that weekend with mis-firing and foul plug on #3 cylinder as well as torn up left front control arm bushing that making the car hard to drive. Still pull a 2:03 flat. I think the car ultimate pace that day if everything went right will be low 2:02 or high 2:01.

Bonster

Hey Andrie, does Kenji's last name start with an 'N'? If so, he's one of T.E.A.M. Racing's drivers! Small world . . .

M758

You gave up far too soon. To pass and make it stick a car like that you need to pass the car with some twisties still left. This way you can try to pull a gap so they can't pull you on next straight. You need by really aggressive in the coners were you hare fast and defend like hell where you are not. I had race with viper once. You thin the 968 has hp well how about a viper. In the end I passed him 3-4 times and I never quit when he passed me back. In then I got rid of the guy by passing and managing gain enough ground to hold him off until we go to the next set of turns. There I was gone and pulled enough of gap to clear him for good. I also find that most guys that can't get it done the corners don't like cars crawling all over their tails. So stick to him like glue in the corners and push him to a mistake so that they can't easily pass back on the next straight.

I would have tried to pull off a pass down at right hander at 6 (I think it six where Ross went off track) Carry speed and just stuff the car inside. Doing that should give you some additional corners to pull a gap. Seems like he was really weak in 9 and 10 so the key is to gain enough ground before 9 so that you still have the edge going to 10. Then you will gain more ground out of 10. You will need a strong run and then still probably need to take a defensiive line into 1. The key then is to make the car just wide enough to make it down to 4-5-6 area so you can try to pull a big gap. Sounds hard, but if you can run 4 second a lap faster that is the time to pull it off.

BTW... you were a little soft on #77 black car letting him pass you like that. Keeping the 77 behind you and infront of the 968 would have been very benfitial to your race. This way the 77 would have been messing with 968.

TD in DC

Yes, you are right. This wasn't the first race like this, so my frustration had been building over time. The driver is a super nice guy, and I think that part of the problem is that he "knows" me, so when he sees me in front of me he passes me, and when he sees me behind him he gives "just enough" gas to keep me out of striking distance, but way under my DE pace.

I had fun racing the black car. I felt like he could pull me on the straights, though, maybe due to me still being a little overweight, or maybe he just got on the throttle a little too early. In any event, you are right that I essentially quit. Quitters cannot win, but I felt myself getting so angry that I was about to do something stupid. Again, I would not have felt like this if this had been the first race where this had happened, but this was about the third race weekend in a row.

M758

BTW... TD

Arm Chair racing is 100x easier than actually doing it. What I posted is what I probably would have been trying to do, but who knows If I actually could have pulled it off.

It does bring up and important point. Racing is not just driving fast. If takes 100% concentraion to just drive fast then how will you ever have the capacity to develop a stratagy like I stated above to try to pass? Really good racers are fast, but also plan out their passes like chess moves. In the last couple years I have been able to work out passes on cars by thinking my way through. If I do this here they will make this counter move and then I can make another counter and thus have the advantage 2 corners down the track. If I spent the entire racing going "Whoa I just barely made that corner!" I would not have anything left to think through any plans.

TD in DC

No, I am sure you would have done better. You see, this is the point I have been trying to make to GR. I can turn very, very fast times in DE provided there is an open track. In a W2W race, that is just the ticket to enter. That is so not a big deal, it is all about racecraft and strategy. So, a theoretical sector times is irrelevant . . .

M758

Maybe you need to have a little one on one with that driver. If you not in the same class (I assume he is in super cup) politely inform him that while you respect his desire to be on track when you get stuck behind him it really impacts your race. In general out of class racing is frowened up especially where the inclass fields are quite large.

TD in DC

That is basically the conversation I and Ross had with him after that race. Again, super nice guy and a friend. Still frustrating.

GhettoRacer

You missed the part where I started behind pack of 10 or 11 Spec Miata's. Plus the distance of at least 0.2-0.4 miles between myself and the last car in the Honda Challenge pack. This was of course, because I sort of missed the pre-grid which is my own fault.

Jim Child

I agree with Joe. If he's racing you out of class, and preventing you from racing with those that are in your class then a conversation is in order. I haven't seen the video yet, but I'm pretty sure I know who this is. I suspect he'll be very receptive to a friendly conversation and the problem will stop right there.

GhettoRacer

I do appreciate the tips guys and you guys will probably think I'm cocky for saying this but you guys haven't told me anything I don't already know (that my w2w needs polishing, because you can't get that in DE or anywhere else. only actual w2w). I'm comfortable with my car control and fast lapping. If anything, right now I lack confidence in OTHER people who I race with... if I'm glued to his *** does he realize it? If I out brake him, will he turn in and collect me? I've studied a lot of in car race videos. I see things develop all the times and I don't think anything can surprise me on the track.

Back in 2002 a pro racer and I ran my car back to back. Our lap times were with in 1 second. Since then I've had opportunity to work with 3 other pro drivers and I didn't see anything they did that I couldn't do. Now this dosn't speak of racecraft yet, just driving fast. With my current skill set I believe I can acquire the w2w necessary to take it to the next level in the next year or two (or 3 heheh) I just need w2w seat time.