open letter
05-19-2003, 10:33 PM
#61
Three Wheelin'
Every once in a while, someone runs into a rennlist board, hair on fire, just begging for people to throw gas on him. GR, your the man!
The positive of this thread, as I am about to teach my first student of the year this weekend, I am reminded of all the things that I should never do/say/brag about. I own a Porsche, I dont feel the need/desire to drive something else that does not belong to me...
At Mid Ohio last week, I asked a local instructor to drive my car, I learned more about the track in that 20 min than in my 2 previous days. My car, My choice. I trusted this guy, GR, I would leave the track if you showed up. Please stop posting, you make instructors look bad...
The positive of this thread, as I am about to teach my first student of the year this weekend, I am reminded of all the things that I should never do/say/brag about. I own a Porsche, I dont feel the need/desire to drive something else that does not belong to me...
At Mid Ohio last week, I asked a local instructor to drive my car, I learned more about the track in that 20 min than in my 2 previous days. My car, My choice. I trusted this guy, GR, I would leave the track if you showed up. Please stop posting, you make instructors look bad...
05-19-2003, 10:36 PM
#62
Addict
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Eric in Chicago:
<strong> At Mid Ohio last week, I asked a local instructor to drive my car, I learned more about the track in that 20 min than in my 2 previous days. My car, My choice. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Who was it? Good chance I know him. Can't wait for Putnam in June. You will not believe how much more fun your first race is compared to all the DE's you have done. I am excited for you.
<strong> At Mid Ohio last week, I asked a local instructor to drive my car, I learned more about the track in that 20 min than in my 2 previous days. My car, My choice. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Who was it? Good chance I know him. Can't wait for Putnam in June. You will not believe how much more fun your first race is compared to all the DE's you have done. I am excited for you.
05-19-2003, 10:40 PM
#63
Technical Specialist
Rennlist
Lifetime Member
Rennlist
Lifetime Member
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica"><strong>I would never drive someone else's car on the track unless I was prepared to write them a check for it in the event of a mishap. Unless you can afford to do the same you should refrain from driving anyone's car.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">This whole thread is almost too entertaining to introduce what may be a tangent, however.....
In both PCA and BMW drivers education around here, the instructors drive the beginning students 2 or 3 laps in their cars. Those laps are typically done under the standing yellow flag, at reduced speed. Here the instructor discusses the line, pointing out flagging stations, brake points, etc. It gives the new student a chance to see what the course is like, getting an introduction to the track before getting behind the wheel. It's a controlled environment, and the goal is to give the student a brief introduction to the track without having them try to drive and listen and comprehend at the same time - this can be a challenge to the new student! As an aside, it gives the instructor a feel for the particular car, so he has an idea of how it will handle with the student in the drivers seat under the green flag.
If there is instructional value to providing the student with a ride in a higher run group, their instructor can take them out in another run group. Although some take their students out in the instructor run group, we've found that most students get more out of going out with an instructor in the run group above where they are driving. Many students, when riding in the instructors run group, hang on in shear terror, which has minimal educational value. Note these rides are in the instructors car, not with an instructor driving the students car.
Anyhow, not intending to divert attention far away from the original thread, but I did want to provide another viewpoint about driving anothers car. If this is deserving of discussion, maybe someone would be kind enough to start a new discussion thread.
In both PCA and BMW drivers education around here, the instructors drive the beginning students 2 or 3 laps in their cars. Those laps are typically done under the standing yellow flag, at reduced speed. Here the instructor discusses the line, pointing out flagging stations, brake points, etc. It gives the new student a chance to see what the course is like, getting an introduction to the track before getting behind the wheel. It's a controlled environment, and the goal is to give the student a brief introduction to the track without having them try to drive and listen and comprehend at the same time - this can be a challenge to the new student! As an aside, it gives the instructor a feel for the particular car, so he has an idea of how it will handle with the student in the drivers seat under the green flag.
If there is instructional value to providing the student with a ride in a higher run group, their instructor can take them out in another run group. Although some take their students out in the instructor run group, we've found that most students get more out of going out with an instructor in the run group above where they are driving. Many students, when riding in the instructors run group, hang on in shear terror, which has minimal educational value. Note these rides are in the instructors car, not with an instructor driving the students car.
Anyhow, not intending to divert attention far away from the original thread, but I did want to provide another viewpoint about driving anothers car. If this is deserving of discussion, maybe someone would be kind enough to start a new discussion thread.
05-19-2003, 10:44 PM
#64
Three Wheelin'
Hey Greg,
Jet Hawthorn. He helped Jeff out getting ready for the club race. Made Jeff fast!! that old car of his was running 1.47's not bad for a 30 year old car!! I am counting on the same from you at Putnam!
Jet Hawthorn. He helped Jeff out getting ready for the club race. Made Jeff fast!! that old car of his was running 1.47's not bad for a 30 year old car!! I am counting on the same from you at Putnam!
05-19-2003, 10:56 PM
#65
Haiku Grasshoppa
Rennlist Member
Can I Drove Your Car?
Rennlist Member
Can I Drove Your Car?
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Grants Pass, OR
Posts: 1,171
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Bill Gregory:
<strong>In both PCA and BMW drivers education around here, the instructors drive the beginning students 2 or 3 laps in their cars. Those laps are typically done under the standing yellow flag, at reduced speed. Here the instructor discusses the line, pointing out flagging stations, brake points, etc. It gives the new student a chance to see what the course is like, getting an introduction to the track before getting behind the wheel. It's a controlled environment, and the goal is to give the student a brief introduction to the track without having them try to drive and listen and comprehend at the same time - this can be a challenge to the new student! As an aside, it gives the instructor a feel for the particular car, so he has an idea of how it will handle with the student in the drivers seat under the green flag.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">TracQuest does exactly the same thing, as part of their "Ducks-in-a-row" exercise, but goes it one better: An instructor drives the students car (at a very reduced speed--approximately 60 mph), and talks about all the things you've pointed out above, PLUS a second student is following along in his own car, so that he gets a chance to see the line the instructor is driving from behind. This goes on for about 5 laps, then the instructor moves to the second car, and the first car follows along behind.
<strong>In both PCA and BMW drivers education around here, the instructors drive the beginning students 2 or 3 laps in their cars. Those laps are typically done under the standing yellow flag, at reduced speed. Here the instructor discusses the line, pointing out flagging stations, brake points, etc. It gives the new student a chance to see what the course is like, getting an introduction to the track before getting behind the wheel. It's a controlled environment, and the goal is to give the student a brief introduction to the track without having them try to drive and listen and comprehend at the same time - this can be a challenge to the new student! As an aside, it gives the instructor a feel for the particular car, so he has an idea of how it will handle with the student in the drivers seat under the green flag.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">TracQuest does exactly the same thing, as part of their "Ducks-in-a-row" exercise, but goes it one better: An instructor drives the students car (at a very reduced speed--approximately 60 mph), and talks about all the things you've pointed out above, PLUS a second student is following along in his own car, so that he gets a chance to see the line the instructor is driving from behind. This goes on for about 5 laps, then the instructor moves to the second car, and the first car follows along behind.
05-19-2003, 11:12 PM
#66
Lifetime Rennlist Member
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Bill Gregory:
<strong>Many students, when riding in the instructors run group, hang on in shear terror, which has minimal educational value. Note these rides are in the instructors car, not with an instructor driving the students car.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Funny. My student riders almost always say they were not afraid. They should be, as I am terrified pretty much all the way around the track <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> . Maybe theyr really are terrorized and don't want to admit it. I do, however, make it a point to advise them NOT to use my braking references.
I do think it makes a lot of sense to do the rides one group up.
<strong>Many students, when riding in the instructors run group, hang on in shear terror, which has minimal educational value. Note these rides are in the instructors car, not with an instructor driving the students car.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Funny. My student riders almost always say they were not afraid. They should be, as I am terrified pretty much all the way around the track <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> . Maybe theyr really are terrorized and don't want to admit it. I do, however, make it a point to advise them NOT to use my braking references.
I do think it makes a lot of sense to do the rides one group up.
05-19-2003, 11:36 PM
#67
A Banned 'Haiku Victim'
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: los angeles, san francisco, phoenix, tokyo, taipei
Posts: 2,367
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by DJ:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by GhettoRacer:
<strong>Weird. I've never asked more than once. If they show the slightest hesitation or the rapport isn't there, I don't even bother.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Either you don't remember things very clearly, or you are using a non-standard definition of the term "ask". You asked me to drive my Radical three separate times in one day: 1st time, in the drivers meeting, I said, "No"; 2nd time, a few minutes later in the same drivers meeting, but this time you added "how about if I drive it in Ducks-in-a-row?", this time I laughed (incredulous), and said "No"; 3rd time at the end of the day, you ran into the garage, helmet in hand and asked again. Do you remember what I said?
Frank will ask to drive,
and if the answer is "No",
He keeps on asking.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Actually, I rarely ask more than once on my student. I asked you several times because you're an fellow instructor. the 1st time you said no because if I go off, it's a $5k+ damage. After I thought about it some, hell I can afford that, even though I wouldn't never drove it that hard anyway. So paying is what you were really worry about, there was nothing to worry about.
I asked again the 2nd time to drive it in the ducks in the row because that would for certain be a low speed stuff; and if you were worried I would damage your car, this would not cause any problems. I once consider you a track instructor friend, but I guess you really think otherwise.
The 3rd time, I asked again? Can't believe I did that. I'm thinking I did it for amusement to watch what your reaction would be. What did you reply anyway?
The other time I asked was of course, was a certain gentleman's GT2. Which I really had the best intension of helping him feel the car. I planned on 5/10th laps... It would've really benefitted him but. Oh well.
This particular Viper incident Mark mentioned, I really have no recollection of. I'm hopeing that student would contact me, so that I can at least remember it.
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by GhettoRacer:
<strong>Weird. I've never asked more than once. If they show the slightest hesitation or the rapport isn't there, I don't even bother.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Either you don't remember things very clearly, or you are using a non-standard definition of the term "ask". You asked me to drive my Radical three separate times in one day: 1st time, in the drivers meeting, I said, "No"; 2nd time, a few minutes later in the same drivers meeting, but this time you added "how about if I drive it in Ducks-in-a-row?", this time I laughed (incredulous), and said "No"; 3rd time at the end of the day, you ran into the garage, helmet in hand and asked again. Do you remember what I said?
Frank will ask to drive,
and if the answer is "No",
He keeps on asking.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Actually, I rarely ask more than once on my student. I asked you several times because you're an fellow instructor. the 1st time you said no because if I go off, it's a $5k+ damage. After I thought about it some, hell I can afford that, even though I wouldn't never drove it that hard anyway. So paying is what you were really worry about, there was nothing to worry about.
I asked again the 2nd time to drive it in the ducks in the row because that would for certain be a low speed stuff; and if you were worried I would damage your car, this would not cause any problems. I once consider you a track instructor friend, but I guess you really think otherwise.
The 3rd time, I asked again? Can't believe I did that. I'm thinking I did it for amusement to watch what your reaction would be. What did you reply anyway?
The other time I asked was of course, was a certain gentleman's GT2. Which I really had the best intension of helping him feel the car. I planned on 5/10th laps... It would've really benefitted him but. Oh well.
This particular Viper incident Mark mentioned, I really have no recollection of. I'm hopeing that student would contact me, so that I can at least remember it.
05-19-2003, 11:40 PM
#68
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Houston, Tx
Posts: 2,956
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yup, that's the way the local PCA region handles Green students - first Green session Saturday, instructor drives 2-3 laps at very low speeds under double yellow. And no helmets, although with mandatory intercoms these days, I'm not sure the benefit anymore of the no-helmet rule.
I offer to take my students out in yellow (middle run group), if they're comfortable with the idea, in their car. Preferably not until they've driven two or three sessions of their own. Agree with DJ & Mark, riding in someone else's car in Red is 'overstimulating' - they're not learning much they can take back to their own driving. And it doesn't tell them much about the capabilities of their own car, which is a big part of the benefit of a yellow ride.
I do try to remember to always tell them before we go out (in yellow, in their car), that if their comfort level gets exceeded, to just let me know & we'll slow way down.
I offer to take my students out in yellow (middle run group), if they're comfortable with the idea, in their car. Preferably not until they've driven two or three sessions of their own. Agree with DJ & Mark, riding in someone else's car in Red is 'overstimulating' - they're not learning much they can take back to their own driving. And it doesn't tell them much about the capabilities of their own car, which is a big part of the benefit of a yellow ride.
I do try to remember to always tell them before we go out (in yellow, in their car), that if their comfort level gets exceeded, to just let me know & we'll slow way down.
05-19-2003, 11:55 PM
#69
Race Director
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by GhettoRacer:
<strong>some of you are pretty close minded. pretty typical Porsche/BMW/rich guy mentality (not knocking all participants on rennlist, I've met plenty of really nice people here)</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Wow. If we were face to face you might be sitting on your *** right about now.
I'm anything but your "typical Porsche/BMW/rich guy." I happen to own both and most days am amazed at that fact. I found my 944, straight and complete in a small boneyard and decided it was the perfect car to build into my race car. My previous car (more on that in a moment) was totalled through no fault of my own what so ever. I needed another car and a used 2000 328i with 40% of the warranty left sure beat a new Mazda 6. I've always dreamed of owning a BMW or a Porsche and I'm fortunate to own both. Someone pinch me.
Before I bought my Bimmer I drove a 1991 Infiniti G20 which my wife and I brought back from the dead. I eventually installed a Japanese market factory turbo engine because I had the opportunity to write an article for Sport Compact Car on the endeavor. Nice car and well prepared, but to most German car owners, still a ricer (even though it was the sleeper of the decade). I also own a 1991 Nissan Sentra SE-R which I've invested a fair amount of money, and especially time into.
I'm anything but your "typical Porsche/BMW/rich-guy" type. But your words are so offensive I could slug you.
I've spent a lifetime devoted to cars and racing and have autocrossed, raced karts, attended a professional racing school, and now hold an SCCA regional competition license. I considered pursuing a career racing cars (a real career, not paying my way in a pro series), but by the time I realized how to go about it and believed it was possible, I also realized I was entirely too old to start (29). I have the cars I have and done these things because of making sacrifices in life. I don't have a great retirement portfolio (hell, not even good). I could have if I didn't pursue my racing addiction and car addiction.
I'm sure there are many here who may fit your image of the "Porsche/BMW/rich-guy." I'm also sure there are many more like me who have made many sacrifices to do this. So screw you and your attitude. You don't know dick about racing.
<strong>some of you are pretty close minded. pretty typical Porsche/BMW/rich guy mentality (not knocking all participants on rennlist, I've met plenty of really nice people here)</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Wow. If we were face to face you might be sitting on your *** right about now.
I'm anything but your "typical Porsche/BMW/rich guy." I happen to own both and most days am amazed at that fact. I found my 944, straight and complete in a small boneyard and decided it was the perfect car to build into my race car. My previous car (more on that in a moment) was totalled through no fault of my own what so ever. I needed another car and a used 2000 328i with 40% of the warranty left sure beat a new Mazda 6. I've always dreamed of owning a BMW or a Porsche and I'm fortunate to own both. Someone pinch me.
Before I bought my Bimmer I drove a 1991 Infiniti G20 which my wife and I brought back from the dead. I eventually installed a Japanese market factory turbo engine because I had the opportunity to write an article for Sport Compact Car on the endeavor. Nice car and well prepared, but to most German car owners, still a ricer (even though it was the sleeper of the decade). I also own a 1991 Nissan Sentra SE-R which I've invested a fair amount of money, and especially time into.
I'm anything but your "typical Porsche/BMW/rich-guy" type. But your words are so offensive I could slug you.
I've spent a lifetime devoted to cars and racing and have autocrossed, raced karts, attended a professional racing school, and now hold an SCCA regional competition license. I considered pursuing a career racing cars (a real career, not paying my way in a pro series), but by the time I realized how to go about it and believed it was possible, I also realized I was entirely too old to start (29). I have the cars I have and done these things because of making sacrifices in life. I don't have a great retirement portfolio (hell, not even good). I could have if I didn't pursue my racing addiction and car addiction.
I'm sure there are many here who may fit your image of the "Porsche/BMW/rich-guy." I'm also sure there are many more like me who have made many sacrifices to do this. So screw you and your attitude. You don't know dick about racing.
05-20-2003, 12:06 AM
#70
Rennlist Member
To be honest, i would consider asking everyone in the pits if you could drive their car and "teach" them extremely rude and arrogant. I personally would never in my wildest imaginations even think for a milisecond of asking someone if i could drive their car(and then brag about it). It is evident that you have no clue what your talking about. But im sure there will always be a few people that will listen to a random idiot that talks the talk.
On another note, I have never done a DE that has had the pace of a race. You simply cannot say with any certainty that you are using all of the cars potential on a race track until you have tried racing. I thought i was going as fast as i could turning 1:40's at RA, but i easily dropped 4 seconds off my times in my first club race at RA, and i KNOW there are TONS of faster drivers out there. Trust me if you think you are a hot **** driver, come out to a race you will be humbled, have your excuses ready.
i still cant believe you actually go around the pits asking people if you can drive their cars
On another note, I have never done a DE that has had the pace of a race. You simply cannot say with any certainty that you are using all of the cars potential on a race track until you have tried racing. I thought i was going as fast as i could turning 1:40's at RA, but i easily dropped 4 seconds off my times in my first club race at RA, and i KNOW there are TONS of faster drivers out there. Trust me if you think you are a hot **** driver, come out to a race you will be humbled, have your excuses ready.
i still cant believe you actually go around the pits asking people if you can drive their cars
05-20-2003, 12:10 AM
#71
Race Director
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by GhettoRacer:
<strong>I wrote this open letter in hopes people will understand me.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Oh, I think everyone understands you pretty well about now.
<strong>I wrote this open letter in hopes people will understand me.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Oh, I think everyone understands you pretty well about now.
05-20-2003, 12:30 AM
#72
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Encinitas, CA
Posts: 664
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have been trying to avoid this topic. But much like a wreck on the side of the freeway, try as you might, you still feel compelled to look, even if it's just out of the corner of your eye...
The following are just my impressions, ideas, and thoughts. Feel free to disagree if you will.
1) I have not yet attended a DE (but my first one is next month @ California Speedway, whooohooo!!), nor have I ever raced (legally
). But after reading the descriptions of the two I came to the conclusion (rather quickly I might add) that the two were not the same (which can be interpreted in some languages as similar). In fact I think the descriptions of DE's (and Time Trials) both say right in them that "this is not racing". But my memory has been known to be off a little. So being in this sport for only 6 months I would have to conclude that DE's and TT's are decidedly different from racing.
<sarcasm>
Oh wait! I just remembered. I sat in the back of a CART car for 3 laps around California Speedway with Driving 101 last year. I must be qualified to Club Race. Please make the appropriate notation in my log book so I may acquire my Competition Permit!
</sarcasm>
2) If I were "always trying to improve myself" and thought "my heart was in the right place" I would definitely NOT insist I was right and drivers with tons more experience than I were wrong. But that's just me.
3) I am not a literary expert by no means. But I do consider myself somewhat educated. At least educated enough to be able to read the difference between "bad writing" and "arrogance" (see #2 above). I have seen both in this thread. And they were both from the same author.
4) All this talk of oil/coolant on the track reminded my of the F1 race yesterday. Alonso left some hydraulic fluid right on the apex of turn one. Michael Schumacher and Kimi Räikkönen drove right through it, overshooting the turn and having to use the runoff (which, fortunately turned out to be tarmac this year). I would consider these two especially to be the top drivers in motorsports. If they do not have "a smart head" and are not "fully aware of the surroundings", I have no hope what-so-ever!
<disclaimer>
I may have my facts about yesterday wrong (i.e. the names and places have been changed to protected the innocent). But I think my point is pretty clear.
</disclaimer>
As stated above, these are just my thoughts and impressions from reading this thread. You may agree or disagree all you like. Also, I would like to make it know that with all this talk of broken vehicles and missing limbs from DE's I am now officially petrified about taking my baby on the track for the first time! I just wanted to thank all of you for that
.
/net
The following are just my impressions, ideas, and thoughts. Feel free to disagree if you will.
1) I have not yet attended a DE (but my first one is next month @ California Speedway, whooohooo!!), nor have I ever raced (legally
). But after reading the descriptions of the two I came to the conclusion (rather quickly I might add) that the two were not the same (which can be interpreted in some languages as similar). In fact I think the descriptions of DE's (and Time Trials) both say right in them that "this is not racing". But my memory has been known to be off a little. So being in this sport for only 6 months I would have to conclude that DE's and TT's are decidedly different from racing.<sarcasm>
Oh wait! I just remembered. I sat in the back of a CART car for 3 laps around California Speedway with Driving 101 last year. I must be qualified to Club Race. Please make the appropriate notation in my log book so I may acquire my Competition Permit!
</sarcasm>
2) If I were "always trying to improve myself" and thought "my heart was in the right place" I would definitely NOT insist I was right and drivers with tons more experience than I were wrong. But that's just me.
3) I am not a literary expert by no means. But I do consider myself somewhat educated. At least educated enough to be able to read the difference between "bad writing" and "arrogance" (see #2 above). I have seen both in this thread. And they were both from the same author.
4) All this talk of oil/coolant on the track reminded my of the F1 race yesterday. Alonso left some hydraulic fluid right on the apex of turn one. Michael Schumacher and Kimi Räikkönen drove right through it, overshooting the turn and having to use the runoff (which, fortunately turned out to be tarmac this year). I would consider these two especially to be the top drivers in motorsports. If they do not have "a smart head" and are not "fully aware of the surroundings", I have no hope what-so-ever!
<disclaimer>
I may have my facts about yesterday wrong (i.e. the names and places have been changed to protected the innocent). But I think my point is pretty clear.
</disclaimer>
As stated above, these are just my thoughts and impressions from reading this thread. You may agree or disagree all you like. Also, I would like to make it know that with all this talk of broken vehicles and missing limbs from DE's I am now officially petrified about taking my baby on the track for the first time! I just wanted to thank all of you for that
./net
05-20-2003, 01:03 AM
#73
Haiku Grasshoppa
Rennlist Member
Can I Drove Your Car?
Rennlist Member
Can I Drove Your Car?
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Grants Pass, OR
Posts: 1,171
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by GhettoRacer:
<strong>Weird. I've never asked more than once.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica"><strong>Actually, I rarely ask more than once on my student. I asked you several times because you're an fellow instructor.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Huh? Frank, I'm trying to be as polite as possible, but you're just not getting the point, so I'm going to be blunt: Many people consider it rude for someone to ask to drive their car (even instructors).
Get up on stage sometime, and ask the guitarist if you can play his guitar, because you'd like to see how it feels. See how he responds...
Walk up to a table in a club, and ask a stranger if you can slow-dance with his wife, because you think she's really hot, and you'd like to see what she's like. See how he responds...
Ask someone if you can drive his race car, and see how he responds...
It's rude, Frank. It doesn't matter if you think it's rude or not, and it doesn't matter how nicely you ask. Your opinion doesn't count, because it's not your car. The mere act of asking is considered rude.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica"><strong> the 1st time you said no because if I go off, it's a $5k+ damage. After I thought about it some, hell I can afford that, even though I wouldn't never drove it that hard anyway. So paying is what you were really worry about, there was nothing to worry about.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">That's not exactly right, Frank. The first time, you asked, I said "No", and you said, "Oh, come on. Why not?" That's when I said, that even if you had a slight OTE, just driving it through the dirt would cause $5k worth of damage to the splitter, the under tray, and the diffuser. I was trying to give you an out, Frank, a way to save face...
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica"><strong>I asked again the 2nd time to drive it in the ducks in the row because that would for certain be a low speed stuff; and if you were worried I would damage your car, this would not cause any problems.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">You didn't get the point, Frank. The point was: 1) It was rude to ask. 2) You asked, and the answer was "No". Also, going off the track (or hitting something) is not the only way to damage a car. The engine can be over-revved, the transmission can be mis-shifted, the clutch can be slipped, etc.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica"><strong>I once consider you a track instructor friend, but I guess you really think otherwise.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">LOL! That's rich, Frank. You ask to drive my car, and if I say "No", then I'm not your friend any more? Thanks, Frank. I guess we were really close pals, huh? I'm such an ***. I should just do whatever you ask, then you'd be my friend.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica"><strong>The 3rd time, I asked again? Can't believe I did that. I'm thinking I did it for amusement to watch what your reaction would be. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I used to know this kid named Jimmy. He wasn't retarded or anything, just kinda slow. He went to the zoo, and reached through the bars and poked the bear with a sharp stick. The bear growled, but Jimmy didn't get scared. Jimmy poked the bear again, and this time, along with the growl, he took a swing at Jimmy, and narrowly missed him. Jimmy wondered what the bear would do if he poked him a third time. He thought it might be amusing. So he poked that bear one last time. I miss Jimmy...
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica"><strong>The other time I asked was of course, was a certain gentleman's GT2. . . . It would've really benefitted him but. Oh well.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Those are your words, Frank. Read them again. Again. Again. Keep reading them until you understand why some people think you're an egotistical ***.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica"><strong>This particular Viper incident Mark mentioned, I really have no recollection of. I'm hopeing that student would contact me, so that I can at least remember it.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I don't know who sent the email to Mark, but I was at the table with a few Viper drivers at the Buttonwillow banquet, and they all were talking about it.
<strong>Weird. I've never asked more than once.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica"><strong>Actually, I rarely ask more than once on my student. I asked you several times because you're an fellow instructor.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Huh? Frank, I'm trying to be as polite as possible, but you're just not getting the point, so I'm going to be blunt: Many people consider it rude for someone to ask to drive their car (even instructors).
Get up on stage sometime, and ask the guitarist if you can play his guitar, because you'd like to see how it feels. See how he responds...
Walk up to a table in a club, and ask a stranger if you can slow-dance with his wife, because you think she's really hot, and you'd like to see what she's like. See how he responds...
Ask someone if you can drive his race car, and see how he responds...
It's rude, Frank. It doesn't matter if you think it's rude or not, and it doesn't matter how nicely you ask. Your opinion doesn't count, because it's not your car. The mere act of asking is considered rude.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica"><strong> the 1st time you said no because if I go off, it's a $5k+ damage. After I thought about it some, hell I can afford that, even though I wouldn't never drove it that hard anyway. So paying is what you were really worry about, there was nothing to worry about.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">That's not exactly right, Frank. The first time, you asked, I said "No", and you said, "Oh, come on. Why not?" That's when I said, that even if you had a slight OTE, just driving it through the dirt would cause $5k worth of damage to the splitter, the under tray, and the diffuser. I was trying to give you an out, Frank, a way to save face...
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica"><strong>I asked again the 2nd time to drive it in the ducks in the row because that would for certain be a low speed stuff; and if you were worried I would damage your car, this would not cause any problems.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">You didn't get the point, Frank. The point was: 1) It was rude to ask. 2) You asked, and the answer was "No". Also, going off the track (or hitting something) is not the only way to damage a car. The engine can be over-revved, the transmission can be mis-shifted, the clutch can be slipped, etc.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica"><strong>I once consider you a track instructor friend, but I guess you really think otherwise.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">LOL! That's rich, Frank. You ask to drive my car, and if I say "No", then I'm not your friend any more? Thanks, Frank. I guess we were really close pals, huh? I'm such an ***. I should just do whatever you ask, then you'd be my friend.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica"><strong>The 3rd time, I asked again? Can't believe I did that. I'm thinking I did it for amusement to watch what your reaction would be. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I used to know this kid named Jimmy. He wasn't retarded or anything, just kinda slow. He went to the zoo, and reached through the bars and poked the bear with a sharp stick. The bear growled, but Jimmy didn't get scared. Jimmy poked the bear again, and this time, along with the growl, he took a swing at Jimmy, and narrowly missed him. Jimmy wondered what the bear would do if he poked him a third time. He thought it might be amusing. So he poked that bear one last time. I miss Jimmy...
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica"><strong>The other time I asked was of course, was a certain gentleman's GT2. . . . It would've really benefitted him but. Oh well.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Those are your words, Frank. Read them again. Again. Again. Keep reading them until you understand why some people think you're an egotistical ***.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica"><strong>This particular Viper incident Mark mentioned, I really have no recollection of. I'm hopeing that student would contact me, so that I can at least remember it.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I don't know who sent the email to Mark, but I was at the table with a few Viper drivers at the Buttonwillow banquet, and they all were talking about it.
05-20-2003, 01:17 AM
#74
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
What's that old saying?...
"Better to have people think you are a fool,
than to open your mouth and prove them right."
Something like that. (But too many syllables to be a haiku.)
"Better to have people think you are a fool,
than to open your mouth and prove them right."
Something like that. (But too many syllables to be a haiku.)
05-20-2003, 01:17 AM
#75
Haiku Grasshoppa
Rennlist Member
Can I Drove Your Car?
Rennlist Member
Can I Drove Your Car?
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Grants Pass, OR
Posts: 1,171
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
/net:
Well said.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by NetManiac:
<strong> Also, I would like to make it known that with all this talk of broken vehicles and missing limbs from DE's I am now officially petrified about taking my baby on the track for the first time! I just wanted to thank all of you for that .
/net</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Perfect. Don't lose that perspective, and everything will turn out just fine. A healthy dose of fear is a good thing. It's what keeps us from harming ourselves, and our Porsches.
If anyone tells you that he never gets scared out on the track, he's either lying to you or going slow. Or maybe both...
Well said.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by NetManiac:
<strong> Also, I would like to make it known that with all this talk of broken vehicles and missing limbs from DE's I am now officially petrified about taking my baby on the track for the first time! I just wanted to thank all of you for that
./net</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Perfect. Don't lose that perspective, and everything will turn out just fine. A healthy dose of fear is a good thing. It's what keeps us from harming ourselves, and our Porsches.
If anyone tells you that he never gets scared out on the track, he's either lying to you or going slow. Or maybe both...