06c55

KOTYKB

FYI its PCCB "Porsche Carbon Ceramic Brakes"

there are plenty of threads on this topic, search and ask questions in those threads

Dr.Bill

You've got it backwards. PCCB's are perfect for a street car - no brake dust if that matters.

The cast iron brakes are better for track use due primarily to replacement costs.

There are replacement cast iron rotors in the PCCB sizes. Although with street use, the rotors should last the life of the car.

orthojoe

Bill is 100% correct. You've got it backwards.

PCCB stands for porsche cars and coffee brakes.
If you aren't tracking the car hard, leave them on the car. No reason to change them

the 'cracks' you are referring to are present when the rotors are brand new. They are supposed to be there

06c55

Thanks for the quick replies. Learn something new everyday.
I thought CCB was first developed and used for racing due to higher temp. resistance.
CCB on Porsche production cars was designed for mainly street use?
I am just trying to understand this CCB business.

ExMB

NO, PCCBs were developed for track use and no dusting on street cars for the coffee and donut crowd as Joe put it.

Like KOTYKB said there are plenty of threads on this. In order not to rehash you might want to read some of those using PCCB and NOT CCB for your search term.

aryork

$$$

06c55

Did a quick search per suggestion and found answers to most of my questions. Thanks to ExMB and others for the clarification and inputs.

KOTYKB

stout

LOL!

I'd never spec PCCB on a car I planned on doing a lot of track work with. That said, PCCB are brilliant out on the loop. Only thing I worry about then is a rock in the caliper, or a mechanic dropping a wheel on the rotor.

Drjimh

Dunkin?

jphughan

OP, lest you fear that you were the victim of fake news in terms of ceramic vs steel until you arrived here, PCCB was in fact designed for the track and is great for track people...who have an unlimited budget. In that case, their benefits are that they're lighter and they offer the convenience of being both quiet on the street and effective on track with the same setup. On steel brakes, achieving those goals almost always takes two separate pads. Some people with steel brakes such as myself just keep track pads in all the time and end up with noisy brakes on the road, but track rats who want to avoid that need to swap pads back and forth -- not so with PCCB.

However, since most people don't have an unlimited budget, the downsides of PCCB on track are that they are very expensive to replace and are very fragile -- for example, if you nick one while swapping wheels or by kicking up gravel on an unintended off-track excursion, you may have just ruined a $4-5K rotor, and you might also have to replace the other rotor on that axle as well. In terms of longevity, the new Gen 3 PCCBs on the 991/981 seem to be lasting longer than before, but they're still not a cheaper solution even if you don't kill a rotor prematurely, especially if you consider that aftermarket 2-piece steel rotors drive the running cost down even farther compared to OEM steel. But for strictly road use, the rotors should last basically the life of the car. Still, if you do start to reach 70-100K miles, you may want to set aside ~$15K for a brake job.

But to answer your questions:
Q: Are the GT4 brake hardware interchangeable (CCB and std ) w/o mod?
A: Things will fit, but the master cylinder is different between steel and CCB (which you don't want to bother changing), and I believe are the ABS and ESC software are different as well, which you'd just live with. I think there's also a bracket you need for the PCCB caliper to be in the right place for steel rotors since PCCB rotors are larger, but I'm not certain. Suncoast and others have sold kits to help people go from both PCCB to steel and the other way around though, so you might start there to see what's involved.

Q: If yes, I can swap out the CCB with steel rotor(w/ std pad)?
A: Don't use the PCCB pad with a steel rotor; change the pads as well. But steel pads will fit in CCB calipers.

Q: If yes, the calipers are identical other than the color (yellow and red)?
A: I believe so other than the bracket determining their offset from center, but someone else should check me on this.

Q: The GT4 had 3K miles on it. On the rotor surface, I can see “crack” lines everywhere. Is that normal?
A: Normal, but PCCB wear is measured with some complicated system to determine how much carbon is left inside the rotor or something, so external wear doesn't tell you anything with those brakes. Also keep in mind that on cars like this, 3K miles can be VERY different from car to car.

Q: Cost of the CCB option for front and rear?
A: The option from the factory was $7400, but that was the upgrade cost. For all the parts, check Suncoast. I wasn't kidding about the $15K brake job though.

Q: If someone wants to trade (std brakes for CCB), what would be a fair price?
A: It's far more common for people here to go the other direction, i.e. buying a used car with PCCB and retrofitting steel for cheaper tracking. You might have trouble finding a market for PCCB takeoffs, so I don't know what a fair price would be.

All that said, even if it requires making a trip and buying separate track insurance, you really should seriously consider tracking a GT4 at least to check it out. There's a reason 80% of GT car owners track their cars (and most of the other 20% are probably collectors with garage queens ). Don't get me wrong, the GT4 is brilliant on the road, but you'll have no idea how much of your money's worth you're missing if you never track it. If you've never even BEEN to a track event, fyi most organizers let you show up to spectate for free and even catch rides with instructors for a nominal fee, if you just want to see what it's like without putting your own car out there.

johnsopa

I have PCCBs and had over 2k track miles (about 20 track days) when I had the rotors measured over the winter. I still had 80% left on them.

I am planning to run them again all this seaon then measure this coming winter. If at or near 50%, then I will simply replace the PCCB rotors with iron rotors from Girodisc.

https://rennlist.com/forums/gt4/9770...surements.html

I would get PCCBs again in a heartbeat.

Petevb

Would be more brilliant if they were not so over-assisted, though most eventually get used to it.

stout

^ Great answers above, especially from JP. All bases covered, or most of them.

I've come around to the idea that PCCB may even offer strong value on a street-driven car that's going to be held onto. At an option price of $7400-8500 depending on which sports car, it isn't a huge leap up from a set of aftermarket rotors and pads (or even replacement OE rotors and pads at all four corners)—for 918 brakes. Same actually goes for Cayennes, which eat conventional pads and rotors for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Back in 2015 or so, I heard from Porsche people that the Gen 3 rotors on the 991 GT3 were lasting much longer than Gen 1 or Gen 2 PCCB at events where pros and amateur drivers were hammering the brakes or even misusing them.

And they reduce unsprung rotational mass? And they're art? And I don't have to clean my silver wheels all the time? And PCCB means brakes are no longer a regular (if ever?) wear item? Not sure they're squeak free, however.

Yes, PCCB comes with higher costs and real risks from chipping or scoring a rotor. And no, PCCB doesn't make sense for all but a tiny percentage of track rats who don't care about consumable costs. But I think there's a strong case to be made for PCCB on the GT4—if it is mostly a street car. My GT4 has been on track once in its 9,000 miles—and my biggest spec regret is not ordering PCCB.