Perimeter

The Alfa 4C has a Carbon Fibre tub too!

Ferrarisimo

Yeah, but that tech has peaked. Not because it's reached its theoretical limit, but because car manufacturers are not invested in NA engines anymore because of emissions testing standards. The cars listed above will be the last generation of high-revving NA engines that we'll likely ever see. Ferrari will be 100% turbo and/or hybrid when the F12 replacement hits; Porsche's GT division will likely be the same way with the 992 generation of cars; Aston Martin is making its last two NA cars in the GT8 and Vanquish S; and BMW and Mercedes have been 100% turbo/hybrid for a while already.

It'll be interesting to see how long Ford, GM, and Lamborghini can hold on.

AfricanHunter

isnt the epa regs based on total cars sold? So if porsche sells 100,000 eco-friendly FI/hybrid/electric cars, they have enough EPA/environmental points to build 5000 NA monsters? If so the mission e should help out.

Ferrarisimo

Yup, but if you were a Porsche bean counter, would you be OK with spending tens of millions on R&D for a naturally aspirated engine that will only be used in 5,000 cars? You want that cost amortized across as many units as possible. So while the laws allow for it, the economics of it don't make sense.

orthojoe

GT3 engines have always been bespoke. The mezger and the 991GT3 engines have very little in common with anything else. I don't why this must change. The next car will be NA.

Ferrarisimo

I sure hope so. If Porsche can make the economics work, hopefully others can too.

GrantG

Don't forget your targets of 450 ft-lbs and 8,500 rpm too. No way to hit those targets with NA Flat-6 while simultaneously hitting power target on pump gas (fuel is the limiting factor for torque per liter).

AfricanHunter

hell, I woulda asked for 550tq and 9500rpm if it wasn't going to be a 200k motor. I think they could make an uber mid engine on a flat 6 that gets pretty darn close to 450/8500. A loaded gt4 can cost 105-110 msrp. I would gladly pay 150k-200k for the ultimate cayman. Thats a lot of cash for "lets fit a 4.2l from the new 3rs into a cayman"

the pccb's that are already in parts are enough brakes, suspension parts, few inches wider panels for wider tires and the parts bin Getrag tranny.

Yeah yeah, cannibalizes 911 sales... I don't believe that fallacy. People who want small midengine will buy the cayman. People that want classic 911 buy the gt3/rs.

And marketed as "we care about the driving experience, our customers who want a midengine get midengine, our customers who want rear engine get rear engine."

when I was shopping for the gt4 I looked at 997 gt3, 997 gt2, etc but wanted manual midengine. Harder and harder to find. Market proven to exist.

khooni

Cross shopping does happen on gt cars. All 2 seater only

tasman

this

GrantG

Sorry, but a 4.2RS NA motor is not going to be close to 450ft-lbs.

Please give an example of an NA gasoline engine that runs on pump gas and passes emissions that produces 107 foot-pounds of torque per liter.

The current RS makes 84.75 ft-lbs per liter - expanding to 4.2L would make 356 ft-lbs with same specific performance.

AfricanHunter

was talking about upcoming rumored .2 3rs 4.2l

current gt3 makes 125/liter
current 3rs makes 123.x
458 Speciale does 137.x

edit. Sorry, you were talking torque.

Nothing comes close that I can recall. 458 Speciale 88.5... gt3 85.5.

Ok so my tq/hp wants arent reasonable given historical NA motor tech. Im good with GT3 hp/tq per liter in a 4.0/4.2 motor =)