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Gents,
Sorry for the silence on this one...I've been traveling for the past 10 days or so. I typically don't unplug, but I was on top of a mountain with extremely limited access to the web.
Thanks for the input on the product. We are listening...We're going to bring a car back in and take another look at it (hopefully next week).
We hadn't taken the aftermarket caliper stud issue into account (although we should have). Are people running studs on the front and rear, or is the front the primary issue? The rear lines are longer and I'm guessing they probably won't be an issue.
On the banjo...I believe Spiegler's idea was simply to keep the line out of the way. When we take the stud issue into account we'll look at the orientation of the line and see which type of fitting makes the most sense for appropriate routing of the line.
We talked about possibly using quick disconnects on the line, but the good ones that actually work (like Spiegler's) are too expensive to be practical for most people (a couple hundred dollars per fitting).
As for a group buy, that's not something we've ever done or plan to do. We're talking about a total price of less than $300. That's lower than a single set of brake pads or 1-2 brake fluid flushes. You probably can't even get a cup of coffee in the waiting room of your local Porsche dealership for that much! Our brake lines will likely be on the car for as long as most people here will own it. I'd say it is a rather low cost of entry given the added performance and convenience our product offers. I know that $13 brake lines built by a 9 yr. old in China are easy to come by on eBay, but that's not what we're talking about here.
Thanks again for the feedback!
Studs are used front and rear. Doesn't make sense to replace bolts each and every time - Porsche recommendation - on one and not the other even will unequal (F vs R) pad wear.
While studs protrude out of the caliper the critical aspect is getting enough slacks in the line to pull the caliper up and off the rotor.
You will find that a lot of members do their own brake flushes, pad swaps, etc instead of taking the car to an indie or dealer. A comparison to service related costs may therefore not be accurate - $ vs
Groupbuy requests usually derive from product pricing: 4-line set = ~$150, new 6-line set = $300 - apparent pricing discontinuity.
Groupbuy requests usually derive from product pricing: 4-line set = ~$150, new 6-line set = $300 - apparent pricing discontinuity.
If you are not happy with the price simply don't buy the part. There is no need to question the manufacturer over your assumed 'pricing discontinuity'.
Jeff, it would be great if you guys would also offer the studs for the calipers and the lines. I am aware that at least one other vendor offers studs for both applications but I cannot speak to the reliability, fitment, or materials of those parts (others please feel free to opine here). I have worked with Essex in the past and my experience has been positive, so I would expect that none of those issues would be a concern.
Thanks for the input on the product. We are listening...
You design a set that allows me to get the caliper off and swap pads WITHOUT having to remove the rear bracket, while allowing for the studs front and rear, I will buy a set from you tomorrow. At your price. (Assuming it's not just plain crazy lol!)
If you are not happy with the price simply don't buy the part. There is no need to question the manufacturer over your assumed 'pricing discontinuity'.
For your ref here is his RL post of his advertised 4-line kits for ~150; Link
And in this thread there are enough questions for a group buy of members looking for a better deal on the 6-line kit.
Jeff, it would be great if you guys would also offer the studs for the calipers and the lines. I am aware that at least one other vendor offers studs for both applications but I cannot speak to the reliability, fitment, or materials of those parts (others please feel free to opine here). I have worked with Essex in the past and my experience has been positive, so I would expect that none of those issues would be a concern.
That other vendor is Tarett Engineering. The caliper studs have been around for many years (long before the GT4) in various lengths to meet the needs of various Porsches, and in fact one axle on the GT4 require a length that PMNA offers, so in that case Tarett just sends you the PMNA part. But I found no complaints about these studs while doing entirely too much research on GT4 mods, and Tarett's products overall have a very solid reputation here. The brake line bracket studs were released shortly after the GT4, so they're much newer, but again I haven't seen any complaints. Those are also obviously less critical from a functional standpoint, though at least as beneficial from a convenience standpoint. Note however that there HAVE been issues reported with installation due to dirty threads in the holes where the studs are to be installed (DeerHunter wrote two great threads about this, one each for the caliper studs and brake line bracket studs), but it's not clear how widespread that issue is, and the solution seems to be to just use a thread chaser (not a tap!!) to clean the threads before installing the studs. Such kits are available on places like Amazon for $20, and the required sizes are in DeerHunter's threads.
Here's a complaint: the OEM cup stud they sell for the fronts rusts, while the custom stainless rears are clean. I would pay extra for fronts machined from the same material as the rear.
Originally Posted by jphughan
That other vendor is Tarett Engineering. The caliper studs have been around for many years (long before the GT4) and I did not find any complaints about them while doing entirely too much research on GT4 mods. The brake line bracket studs were released shortly after the GT4 and again I haven't seen any complaints. Those are obviously much less critical from a functional standpoint, though at least as beneficial from a convenience standpoint. Note however that there HAVE been issues reported with installation due to dirty threads in the holes where the studs are to be installed (DeerHunter wrote two great threads about this, one each for the caliper studs and brake line bracket studs), but it's not clear how widespread that issue is, and the solution seems to be to just use a thread chaser (not a tap!!) to clean the threads before installing the studs. Such kits are available on places like Amazon for $20, and the required sizes are in DeerHunter's threads.
The front caliper studs from Tarett are cup car parts I believe. Should be proven parts.
I had zero fitment issues with the caliper studs or bracket studs front and rear. Even with studs, the brackets are a royal PITA, particularly the front one. Hence the desire for new brake lines.
Actually, new calipers that didn't need to be removed for a simple pad change would be the best solution, but a bit more expensive!!
For your ref here is his RL post of his advertised 4-line kits for ~150; Link
And in this thread there are enough questions for a group buy of members looking for a better deal on the 6-line kit.
So right back at you.
It's a free market. It doesn't matter what the 4 line kit costs. Jeff and his company can charge what they want for the 6 line kit. I believe Jeff noted that he will take a look at the current concerns related to the use of studs. That's customer service.
In this thread started by Jeff you have also asked others to contact BGB. Maybe a better price? You might be better served on eBay
Here's a complaint: the OEM cup stud they sell for the fronts rusts, while the custom stainless rears are clean. I would pay extra for fronts machined from the same material as the rear.
Interesting, hadn't seen anything about this and I haven't installed my stud kit yet so I can't speak from first-hand experience. Did you pass this feedback along to Ira? He may be willing to offer the product you want either formally on his site or as a one-off to you. He's been very responsive to the questions and feedback I've had for him.
Interesting, hadn't seen anything about this and I haven't installed my stud kit yet so I can't speak from first-hand experience. Did you pass this feedback along to Ira? He may be willing to offer the product you want either formally on his site or as a one-off to you. He's been very responsive to the questions and feedback I've had for him.
I did. Their response was that the front studs are OEM cup studs and therefore should be fine.
Regardless, they rust. Spending a few dollars more for machined stainless studs for the fronts similar to the rears would be the right way to go, IMO.
Hello Gents,
We took all of your suggestions and input, and finally got a car back in to examine yesterday. We installed some Tarrett studs to check clearance and line length front and rear. We are going to make a few changes to improve our line kit as follows:
1. We are going to add somewhere between 2" - 2 1/2" to the front line length vs. our first pass on the design. That will allow anyone using studs to remove their caliper without disconnecting the line bracket from the spindle.
2. We are going to drop the banjo fitting on the front lines. While there is no technical disadvantage to the banjo, it seems like most customers are more interested in the factory-style fitting....so, if that's what you want, that's what you get!
3. Our rear lines are great as is, with or without studs, so those will be left alone.
The revised line kits will go into production in a couple of days, and we should have them available for purchase in a few weeks. Again, thanks for your input and patience.
__________________
'09 Carrera 2S, '08 Boxster LE (orange), '91 Acura NSX, Tesla Model 3 Performance, Fiesta ST
Jeff Ritter
Mgr. High Performance Division, Essex Parts Services Essex Designed AP Racing Radi-CAL Competition Brake Kits & 2-piece J Hook Discs Ferodo Racing Brake Pads Spiegler Stainless Steel Brake Lines
704-824-6030 jeff.ritter@essexparts.com
07-13-2016, 12:27 PM
Our brake lines will likely be on the car for as long as most people here will own it. I'd say it is a rather low cost of entry given the added performance and convenience our product offers. I know that $13 brake lines built by a 9 yr. old in China are easy to come by on eBay, but that's not what we're talking about here. 
