Chris Harris Review
03-10-2015, 01:16 AM
#121
I don't understand why everyone keeps talking about this. It, like the GT3, and EVERY OTHER CAR sub $900k, could be "so much more". NO ****. They are designing it to hit a price point. If they put a 4.0 liter in it, a pdk transmission, and a bunch of new carbon fiber aero like the GT3RS, it would be as fast as a GT3 RS, and cost $190k. What is your point?
This car could be more. So, if this car had a 415HP, 3.4 L 9500 RPM dry sump engine, a real GT transmission, multi link suspension all around, how much would you pay for it? A lot. And so would others. There is no substitute Porsche used to say…
BGB builds Cayman race cars that do well and will easily spank this GT4. You can easily use the parts bin that Porsche used to make the GT4 and do this yourself. I won't list the parts or methods. One can look into it they like or not.
03-10-2015, 01:19 AM
#122
Rennlist Member
I don't understand why everyone keeps talking about this. It, like the GT3, and EVERY OTHER CAR sub $900k, could be "so much more". NO ****. They are designing it to hit a price point. If they put a 4.0 liter in it, a pdk transmission, and a bunch of new carbon fiber aero like the GT3RS, it would be as fast as a GT3 RS, and cost $190k. What is your point?
They could have as easily hit their price point by not neutering the 3.8 engine or, even better, by keeping the 3.4 engine but investing in lightness, higher rpms (lighter internals) and better gearing instead. The comments about the trend in watering down the GT brand are spot on.
03-10-2015, 01:22 AM
#123
Rennlist Member
Perhaps the GT4 is the beginning of Porsche wholesaling the GT franchise. Otherwise there is no way a non drysump low Erving main stream production line engine would be allowed as part of the formula. This car was developed quickly. AP has a mandate to become a GT factory now curtesy of the VAG paymasters. I suspect we will see much more GT product like this downstream....Macan GT4 anyone lol!
1. Newsflash- it's now blatantly obvious to everyone that Porsche isn't building enough to satisfy demand. If they cared about profit AT ALL on this car, it would be $10k to $20k more, and production would be 4x larger. No one these days misjudges demand by this much by accident.
2. Where did you get that it was "developed quickly"? In comparison to what? It has an entirely new rear suspension, that can't be swapped onto the regular Caymans. They had to modify the body and frame! This sounds to me like a bigger development job than the difference between the 997.1 and .2 GT3!
3. The oiling system was completely redesigned in 2009 for the new motors, and it's great. If you want to buy a car with a $75,000 motor and trans, buy a GT3, or install it yourself. Hell, it's only a matter of time before BGB figures out a swap. What is the point of selling two different versions of the same thing?!
4. None of us have any idea what goes on amongst the VAG executives. Did you know that Porsche is one of the largest shareholders of VAG? Even if VAG wanted to put their foot down and force Porsche to do something they didn't want to, it would NOT happen without a fight.
5. Porsche has already confirmed they are building a GT4 race car. Factory. Race Car. And guess what- unlike everyone else's GT spec cars, this one will actually share the majority of the parts with the race car. Did you hear AP say that the cup car, GT3 and GT4 all use the same control arms? Find me another brand that can say the same. Seriously, I'm waiting.
I just don't understand why some people are so insistent on being negative that they completely fabricate stories to justify the beliefs that they made up with no information...
BMW sold out YEARS ago. Porsche is not BMW.
/end rant
03-10-2015, 01:27 AM
#124
Rennlist Member
They didn't neuter the 3.8- it's the same motor, making the same power.
Unless you're basing this statement on your many years of experience as the director of product for a major global sports car manufacturer, frankly I am embarrassed for you.
03-10-2015, 01:31 AM
#125
Rennlist Member
This car could be more. So, if this car had a 415HP, 3.4 L 9500 RPM dry sump engine, a real GT transmission, multi link suspension all around, how much would you pay for it? A lot. And so would others. There is no substitute Porsche used to say…
BGB builds Cayman race cars that do well and will easily spank this GT4. You can easily use the parts bin that Porsche used to make the GT4 and do this yourself. I won't list the parts or methods. One can look into it they like or not.
BGB builds Cayman race cars that do well and will easily spank this GT4. You can easily use the parts bin that Porsche used to make the GT4 and do this yourself. I won't list the parts or methods. One can look into it they like or not.
03-10-2015, 01:34 AM
#126
Burning Brakes
Great points!
1. Newsflash- it's now blatantly obvious to everyone that Porsche isn't building enough to satisfy demand. If they cared about profit AT ALL on this car, it would be $10k to $20k more, and production would be 4x larger. No one these days misjudges demand by this much by accident.
2. Where did you get that it was "developed quickly"? In comparison to what? It has an entirely new rear suspension, that can't be swapped onto the regular Caymans. They had to modify the body and frame! This sounds to me like a bigger development job than the difference between the 997.1 and .2 GT3!
3. The oiling system was completely redesigned in 2009 for the new motors, and it's great. If you want to buy a car with a $75,000 motor and trans, buy a GT3, or install it yourself. Hell, it's only a matter of time before BGB figures out a swap. What is the point of selling two different versions of the same thing?!
4. None of us have any idea what goes on amongst the VAG executives. Did you know that Porsche is one of the largest shareholders of VAG? Even if VAG wanted to put their foot down and force Porsche to do something they didn't want to, it would NOT happen without a fight.
5. Porsche has already confirmed they are building a GT4 race car. Factory. Race Car. And guess what- unlike everyone else's GT spec cars, this one will actually share the majority of the parts with the race car. Did you hear AP say that the cup car, GT3 and GT4 all use the same control arms? Find me another brand that can say the same. Seriously, I'm waiting.
I just don't understand why some people are so insistent on being negative that they completely fabricate stories to justify the beliefs that they made up with no information...
BMW sold out YEARS ago. Porsche is not BMW.
/end rant
2. Where did you get that it was "developed quickly"? In comparison to what? It has an entirely new rear suspension, that can't be swapped onto the regular Caymans. They had to modify the body and frame! This sounds to me like a bigger development job than the difference between the 997.1 and .2 GT3!
3. The oiling system was completely redesigned in 2009 for the new motors, and it's great. If you want to buy a car with a $75,000 motor and trans, buy a GT3, or install it yourself. Hell, it's only a matter of time before BGB figures out a swap. What is the point of selling two different versions of the same thing?!
4. None of us have any idea what goes on amongst the VAG executives. Did you know that Porsche is one of the largest shareholders of VAG? Even if VAG wanted to put their foot down and force Porsche to do something they didn't want to, it would NOT happen without a fight.
5. Porsche has already confirmed they are building a GT4 race car. Factory. Race Car. And guess what- unlike everyone else's GT spec cars, this one will actually share the majority of the parts with the race car. Did you hear AP say that the cup car, GT3 and GT4 all use the same control arms? Find me another brand that can say the same. Seriously, I'm waiting.
I just don't understand why some people are so insistent on being negative that they completely fabricate stories to justify the beliefs that they made up with no information...
BMW sold out YEARS ago. Porsche is not BMW.
/end rant
03-10-2015, 01:36 AM
#127
Rennlist Member
Some people will never be satisfied until the car being made is almost exactly like a car they already own or once owned which was considered awesome. Then, if by some small chance that car is actually made, they won't buy the car anyway because it's too much like the car they own or used to own. You can't win with some people.
03-10-2015, 01:39 AM
#128
03-10-2015, 01:41 AM
#129
Let's try and be respectful, at least until we all figure out what's what, shall we?
Last edited by Petevb; 03-10-2015 at 02:28 AM.
03-10-2015, 01:43 AM
#130
Nordschleife Master
I've said it before : this engine is capable of making 430 HP with not one penny more invested.
The gearing is off...again no cost at all for Porsche to make it right.
The Diff can be better...not much of an extra expense.
Do this and you are getting too close to GT3 territory.
They are holding it back but it's a great car for the money.
Now I'm done feeding the trolls(pardon Porsche ambassadors) whom have the sole interest of selling the car while creating imaginary havoc demand to sell over MSRP...
The gearing is off...again no cost at all for Porsche to make it right.
The Diff can be better...not much of an extra expense.
Do this and you are getting too close to GT3 territory.
They are holding it back but it's a great car for the money.
Now I'm done feeding the trolls(pardon Porsche ambassadors) whom have the sole interest of selling the car while creating imaginary havoc demand to sell over MSRP...
03-10-2015, 01:48 AM
#131
Or would you rather drive a 3.0 to 60 Tesla if it gets around a track faster?
03-10-2015, 01:53 AM
#132
I really wonder why they chose the 3.8! I don't get it.
03-10-2015, 02:02 AM
#133
Rennlist Member
Trolling, incessant criticism and negativity are real downers. So is rudeness.
Porsche is a good, smart company, knows it's brand well and works to keep it strong. It has growth aspirations and faces pressures like any business, and is doing it's best to navigate changes in the scenery and competitive set. (PeteVB's comments speak well to these.) PAG has been very very successful in doing so thus far.
The GT4 is not perfect but it is terrific and even at close to $100K, is an excellent value for this level of performance in today's performance car market. We from the outside are just speculating on how they came to this specific formula and specifications set. We all have our predisposed notions of what we wish the car would be. What it is is 400 hp, mid engine, stick shift, GT level chassis, 2950 pounds. We should all be happy that it is being produced and we may buy it if we choose.
Some forum members can choose to take an old Cayman and retrofit it till the cows come home. That is an option, but I am not interested, and could hardly care less. I respect the aftermarket and use it selectively to augment and incrementally improve cars' performance and looks, cars that I think are great cars, cars that I love. I do not believe the aftermarket 'creates' great cars -- great car companies create great cars.
More importantly, I have a passion for great cars, Porsches included (but not Porsches exclusively, by any means). I am really looking forward to my GT4. I believe it will be a great car to drive on road and on track. I expect it will be an excellent performer, be thrilling to drive, and make me smile and nod approvingly. That is worth my $100K.
Porsche is a good, smart company, knows it's brand well and works to keep it strong. It has growth aspirations and faces pressures like any business, and is doing it's best to navigate changes in the scenery and competitive set. (PeteVB's comments speak well to these.) PAG has been very very successful in doing so thus far.
The GT4 is not perfect but it is terrific and even at close to $100K, is an excellent value for this level of performance in today's performance car market. We from the outside are just speculating on how they came to this specific formula and specifications set. We all have our predisposed notions of what we wish the car would be. What it is is 400 hp, mid engine, stick shift, GT level chassis, 2950 pounds. We should all be happy that it is being produced and we may buy it if we choose.
Some forum members can choose to take an old Cayman and retrofit it till the cows come home. That is an option, but I am not interested, and could hardly care less. I respect the aftermarket and use it selectively to augment and incrementally improve cars' performance and looks, cars that I think are great cars, cars that I love. I do not believe the aftermarket 'creates' great cars -- great car companies create great cars.
More importantly, I have a passion for great cars, Porsches included (but not Porsches exclusively, by any means). I am really looking forward to my GT4. I believe it will be a great car to drive on road and on track. I expect it will be an excellent performer, be thrilling to drive, and make me smile and nod approvingly. That is worth my $100K.
Last edited by golfnutintib; 03-10-2015 at 11:22 AM.
03-10-2015, 02:10 AM
#134
Every Boxster shares a block casting, rod bearings, etc with not just a 3.8S but a Turbo S. It would cost less to make every engine a 3.8. But if they did, if they all made the same power, they couldn't charge more for the higher end models. And because they couldn't charge more, the overall profit margin would drop. Meaning they'd need to skimp in other areas, and the cars overall would get worse.
Value based pricing, divorcing what you pay from what something costs to make, is both a blessing and a curse. We should be thanking everyone ordering red seatbelts and deviated stitching, because they are really subsidizing other cars, particularly entry level ones. I know exactly what you're saying, but the GT4 seems more subsidized than most overall.
I agree with you about MSRP. Paying over should be a capital offense...
Last edited by Petevb; 03-10-2015 at 02:31 AM.
