Drank the GT4 koolaid !
11-05-2018, 11:09 AM
#61
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11-05-2018, 12:39 PM
#62
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11-05-2018, 12:40 PM
#63
Rennlist Member
Agreed the prices haven't changed dramatically, but what has changed is the amount of cars that are listed, and we know what supply tends to do. Again, I am not knocking the resale value, or value retention of the GT4, it is one of the many reasons I want to get in to one, but a few isolated sales at dealerships don't reflect the whole market. I've looked a year ago and there were probably a dozen listed on cars.com and today it is over 70.
You make a lot of good points. Being a long time Bimmer guy, I was contemplating getting a used M4, because they have depreciated more than I expected. It's probably because BMW has gone too mainstream with the M brand. It's not that rare of a car, and therefor not that special. A lot of enthusiasts rather buy an e46 or e90 M3, because they have bottomed out and are rising in value. Or look at the M2, much more limited and thus kept its value better also.
Not to get too far off track, but I agree 100% with you about race on Sunday sell on Monday. BMW has not been as active as they used to be during the 80's,90's & early 2000's in Motorsport, and it shows. The M3/4 is still an awesome car, as you well know, but it isn't the benchmark in sports sedans anymore. It used to be that the M3 was king in that segment, now the waters are pretty murky on that subject.
I'm sure there are many reasons the values on Porsche don't drop like those of BMW's or other brands. The biggest reason is that they are on top of their game making phenomenal cars. But to be fair, a lot of exotic cars have turned in to "investments" for wealthy people and I am sure that rubs off a little on them as well, as they just don't make enough cars to satisfy supply. Look at the 911R. That was pure speculation at first.
Last but not least, it looks to me like Porsche does raise the prices on a new model more than the rate of inflation. (I could be wrong) but what is the MSRP difference between a 991.1 and a 991.2 GT3? Seems like it is at least $20k in just a few years time. So that instantly helps the used ones from depreciating. And lets just assume they do the same thing with the 718 GT4's MSRP, and set it at ~$115k, compared to a similar optioned 981 that came in at ~$95k. That would certainly help the current GT4 keep its value for good. Not sure if that is Porsche genius or what, but it does work for those that have cars, and it sucks for those looking from the outside in, which is why I am done waiting and am going to get in. :-)
You make a lot of good points. Being a long time Bimmer guy, I was contemplating getting a used M4, because they have depreciated more than I expected. It's probably because BMW has gone too mainstream with the M brand. It's not that rare of a car, and therefor not that special. A lot of enthusiasts rather buy an e46 or e90 M3, because they have bottomed out and are rising in value. Or look at the M2, much more limited and thus kept its value better also.
Not to get too far off track, but I agree 100% with you about race on Sunday sell on Monday. BMW has not been as active as they used to be during the 80's,90's & early 2000's in Motorsport, and it shows. The M3/4 is still an awesome car, as you well know, but it isn't the benchmark in sports sedans anymore. It used to be that the M3 was king in that segment, now the waters are pretty murky on that subject.
I'm sure there are many reasons the values on Porsche don't drop like those of BMW's or other brands. The biggest reason is that they are on top of their game making phenomenal cars. But to be fair, a lot of exotic cars have turned in to "investments" for wealthy people and I am sure that rubs off a little on them as well, as they just don't make enough cars to satisfy supply. Look at the 911R. That was pure speculation at first.
Last but not least, it looks to me like Porsche does raise the prices on a new model more than the rate of inflation. (I could be wrong) but what is the MSRP difference between a 991.1 and a 991.2 GT3? Seems like it is at least $20k in just a few years time. So that instantly helps the used ones from depreciating. And lets just assume they do the same thing with the 718 GT4's MSRP, and set it at ~$115k, compared to a similar optioned 981 that came in at ~$95k. That would certainly help the current GT4 keep its value for good. Not sure if that is Porsche genius or what, but it does work for those that have cars, and it sucks for those looking from the outside in, which is why I am done waiting and am going to get in. :-)
11-05-2018, 02:09 PM
#64
It’s not isolated. When I bought mine, I called almost 40 dealerships. Always some story, yellow, or something in the build that was odd. In one week, I called 5 dealerships and 5 cars had over revs and couldn’t be CPO’d. The no story, desirable builds are not sitting. That’s the problem, people see these comprised cars listed for cheap and think the values of GT4s are plummeting. The value of those good ones are not.
11-05-2018, 03:41 PM
#65
Rennlist Member
OK, but out of the 80 cars on cargurus.com, 32 are CPO's, still a pretty good selection. And if you play with the "days on market filter" you will see that 26 of them have been listed for 3 weeks or longer, and lot of them are listed well below MSRP, which was not the case a year ago. Not sure what we are debating here? What would you consider the most desirable color and specs? Maybe all those cars are missing a highly desirable option I am not aware off?
But since we’re talking, there are 30 CPO GT4s listed on cars.com today. 17 of the 30 don’t have buckets. 5 are yellow, which is polarizing. 3 are black, another polarizing color. 13 are more then 6k miles. Not saying those are disqualifiers to every buyer, but it’s is to me. That leaves 10 or so cars I might have to choose from to pick the right options/ build.
11-05-2018, 04:00 PM
#66
not arguing, just relaying it’s not a ship is sinking mentality like some are portraying. Not saying it’s you, but some are.
But since we’re talking, there are 30 CPO GT4s listed on cars.com today. 17 of the 30 don’t have buckets. 5 are yellow, which is polarizing. 3 are black, another polarizing color. 13 are more then 6k miles. Not saying those are disqualifiers to every buyer, but it’s is to me. That leaves 10 or so cars I might have to choose from to pick the right options/ build.
BTW, I have similar process of elimination, on color, miles and seats, but I have at least 5 cars I would be OK with right now. Just trying to do my homework and narrow it down. Keep in mind winter is coming also. Typically not a good time to sell a sports car, so short term I think things are looking up to get a "deal"
11-05-2018, 11:08 PM
#67
Burning Brakes
OK, but out of the 80 cars on cargurus.com, 32 are CPO's, still a pretty good selection. And if you play with the "days on market filter" you will see that 26 of them have been listed for 3 weeks or longer, and lot of them are listed well below MSRP, which was not the case a year ago. Not sure what we are debating here? What would you consider the most desirable color and specs? Maybe all those cars are missing a highly desirable option I am not aware off?
White cars were the most abundant and Agate cars were the least. The longest one had been offered for sale was 676 days and they were asking what I refer to as "F Off" money.
11-05-2018, 11:29 PM
#68
Burning Brakes
At the peak of my searching I was tracking 175 unique VIN's that were up for sale before I bought mine. A large majority of those same VIN's are still up for sale today. Some of those have had a birthday without changing hands. I have only had mine a handful of months.
White cars were the most abundant and Agate cars were the least. The longest one had been offered for sale was 676 days and they were asking what I refer to as "F Off" money.
White cars were the most abundant and Agate cars were the least. The longest one had been offered for sale was 676 days and they were asking what I refer to as "F Off" money.
What surprises me is there are more GT4s for sale than there are 981 GTS builds. In fact, close to double. And the GTS was built in '15 & '16.
11-06-2018, 12:59 AM
#69
Rennlist Member
I agree with all of that and thanks for clarifying that it's not me whit the sinking ship mentally, because I really don't see it that way, or I would not want to buy one now. All I am saying is that it is a buyers market, compared to a year ago.
BTW, I have similar process of elimination, on color, miles and seats, but I have at least 5 cars I would be OK with right now. Just trying to do my homework and narrow it down. Keep in mind winter is coming also. Typically not a good time to sell a sports car, so short term I think things are looking up to get a "deal"
BTW, I have similar process of elimination, on color, miles and seats, but I have at least 5 cars I would be OK with right now. Just trying to do my homework and narrow it down. Keep in mind winter is coming also. Typically not a good time to sell a sports car, so short term I think things are looking up to get a "deal"
2k under MSRP. If I had to, I would pay that price but would try to haggle to 5k under.
11-06-2018, 01:33 AM
#71
It’s not isolated. When I bought mine, I called almost 40 dealerships. Always some story, yellow, or something in the build that was odd. In one week, I called 5 dealerships and 5 cars had over revs and couldn’t be CPO’d. The no story, desirable builds are not sitting. That’s the problem, people see these comprised cars listed for cheap and think the values of GT4s are plummeting. The value of those good ones are not.
At the last event I was at, the Racing Yellow GT4 got 2x the attention that the 991 Sapphire GT3 it was parked next to got. I could see yellow looking a bit childish on a rice cooker, but on a GT car? No way.
11-06-2018, 01:35 AM
#72
if all the GT4s listed, I only would buy one... https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/d...8854/overview/
2k under MSRP. If I had to, I would pay that price but would try to haggle to 5k under.
11-06-2018, 03:38 AM
#73
Rennlist Member
if all the GT4s listed, I only would buy one... https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/d...8854/overview/
2k under MSRP. If I had to, I would pay that price but would try to haggle to 5k under.
Vehicle History
Free CARFAX ReportSeller's Notes
Porsche North Houston proudly offers this beautiful Certified Pre-Owned 2016 Porsche Cayman GT4 in Sapphire Blue Metallic over a Black interior with 1,990 miles. Original M.S.R.P. $117,105. The Cayman GT4 is powered by a 3.8 L turbocharged six cylinder engine producing 385 hp and 309 lb-ft of tor...
11-06-2018, 04:41 AM
#74
Rennlist Member
I would put Racing Yellow amongst my top 3 GT4 colors (the others being Carmine Red and Sapphire Blue). After that, it drops off to GT Silver, Metallic White, and Dark Blue Metallic.
At the last event I was at, the Racing Yellow GT4 got 2x the attention that the 991 Sapphire GT3 it was parked next to got. I could see yellow looking a bit childish on a rice cooker, but on a GT car? No way.
At the last event I was at, the Racing Yellow GT4 got 2x the attention that the 991 Sapphire GT3 it was parked next to got. I could see yellow looking a bit childish on a rice cooker, but on a GT car? No way.
Some knucklehead listed the car as a turbo charged 6 cyc??
Vehicle History
Free CARFAX ReportSeller's Notes
Porsche North Houston proudly offers this beautiful Certified Pre-Owned 2016 Porsche Cayman GT4 in Sapphire Blue Metallic over a Black interior with 1,990 miles. Original M.S.R.P. $117,105. The Cayman GT4 is powered by a 3.8 L turbocharged six cylinder engine producing 385 hp and 309 lb-ft of tor...
11-06-2018, 08:04 AM
#75
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I would put Racing Yellow amongst my top 3 GT4 colors (the others being Carmine Red and Sapphire Blue). After that, it drops off to GT Silver, Metallic White, and Dark Blue Metallic.
At the last event I was at, the Racing Yellow GT4 got 2x the attention that the 991 Sapphire GT3 it was parked next to got. I could see yellow looking a bit childish on a rice cooker, but on a GT car? No way.
At the last event I was at, the Racing Yellow GT4 got 2x the attention that the 991 Sapphire GT3 it was parked next to got. I could see yellow looking a bit childish on a rice cooker, but on a GT car? No way.
The first GT4 I saw in the wild was Agate, this was out in Newport RI and for some reason the car looks even bigger in that color. During my search Agate, Sapphire Blue and Black were my top 3. I ended up by chance with a GT Silver car, which I really like, but my C4S was Arctic Silver so originally my intention was to try a different color but I agree that Racing Yellow is attention grabbing.
My BMW M4 is Austin Yellow which I specifically wanted. No other color would suffice, but man o man does it get attention...almost to the point of annoyance . Its the first color I've had that looks clean almost all the time. Even after a long drive in a hard rain last week, it dried up nice.