Hey Mike,

I'll shoot you a PM to discuss some chassis setup, sound characteristics of exhaust upgrades, and the performance potential of various bolt ons. I think you'll find some are going to offer a much better return on investment than others.

Have you decided on your schedule for those events at LRP, WG, and VIR next season? For the remainder of this season, I'll be at NJMP 11/3 and 11/4, as well at 11/6 and Sebring on 11/16-11/18. Not sure on December plans yet. When is the NYST event next week and with what group?

- John Gaydos

 

Congrats. Beautiful car. Hopefully I am not far behind you. Also good to see old BMW's getting some love over here in the Porsche world, since I just sold my e46 M3 and left that side after 25 years of loyalty.

I'd be curious to hear how much you paid for the GT4? Market seems to be getting softer, with sellers kind of slow to adapt..........just judging by the amount of cars that are on the market, the duration of them not moving, and the asking prices still close to MSRP.

 

YUP! That's the way it is. You might be able to find a spectacular deal, but you will have to be flexible on spec and miles. And timing.

You cant say that the market is slow to adjust - the market IS what the market currently is.

 

 

 

 

 

Congrats and welcome! LRP is also my home track--see you there sometime. I tend to run with SCDA or CVR PCA.

 

Those where most likely CPO'd cars then, which does add a value, so in reality we are kind of both making the same point aren't we?
Agreed, I don't just look on Rennlist, in fact I came looking her almost last, and I will say that at least some cars are priced a bit more realistic here compared to the popular used car sites. I was just referring to those that have been listed for a while, and fellow members chiming in with comments suggesting the price was set right. If a car hasn't sold in months, then it's probably not priced right, in most cases. Supply/demand! No demand = lower price.

I wasn't sure I was going to go for the GT4. For the last year I was pretty set to get an M2 or M2 Competition and I noticed similar phenomenon with the prices on those early on. Sellers seem to need some time to adjust to the market, when the supply reaches the demand. In both cases, these cars were in short supply and high demand early on, making them depreciate hardly at all, but then all over sudden the supply caught up. In the case of the M2 it was more due to the fact that they made them for 3 years now, and with the GT4 is just seems that it is the anticipation of the 718 GT4? Not sure and not a big deal. 2063 is not a lot of cars, but I guess it is a small segment.

 

 

Yes, you got to hand it to Porsche. BMW occasionally has a model that behaves like that, and the M2 was at least for a while. The 1M was for sure.

 

 

 

Totally agree !
I also noticed that dealers and some owners are not in a rush to sell them, or at least give them away . The GT4 is amazing eye candy for any showroom.
I bought my GT4 to keep as a legacy Porsche. In the 30+ yrs I've been around the brand I've met a few memorable owners, but the ones that stick out the most are the ones that have owned their P cars for decades. This GT4 will hopefully be a part of my family for a long time. I have a 27 yr old daughter who will get it one day.

The marketplace perception is an odd thing . When I was shopping for my M4, I was looking for a highly optioned car. Executive Package which gives you HUD and Harman Kardon was a must, and it had to be Austin Yellow as for some reason , at least to me, it makes the M4 look even more exotic coupled with the M4 GTS wing., and lastly, it had to be CPO. Current M3/M4 values for non-CPO units are now in the $45-49K range for low mileage examples ( 25-30K miles ) for both Private Party and Dealers which isn't that far from what the BMW Lease Residual Buy Out number is. Its the same depreciation curve for current Audi RS and Mercedes AMG cars. Gems of the secondary market indeed.

However, once you start narrowing your search down to M's ( or AMG's / RS's ) with specific options and CPO they bounce up quite a bit. Competition Package, 20 in 666 wheels , Full leather on certain colors that are rare still cost money. A Nardo on Red M4 w/ Comp Pack is crazy rare w/ 3 pedals .

I noticed the same with the GT4. The low spec units with comfy chairs, non Sport Chrono , are by far the least expensive , which at least to me, are still desirable . High spec GT4's with under 4K miles are going to cost you money regardless. You're not going to lose with those for a choice.

Porsche is the one and only brand that has truly found a way to keep the market engaged and the values of any Porsche consistent . Having worked for Audi of America for over a decade and Mercedes Benz for a little over a year, we were always envious of this . Porsche is still the only manufacturer that believes in "race on Sunday- sell on Monday".

Audi has just started to touch on this a little with Audisport, but Mercedes has little to no AMG presence in their showrooms in the USA . You would think with all the Formula One wins they would flaunt it.

 

Agreed the prices haven't changed dramatically, but what has changed is the amount of cars that are listed, and we know what supply tends to do. Again, I am not knocking the resale value, or value retention of the GT4, it is one of the many reasons I want to get in to one, but a few isolated sales at dealerships don't reflect the whole market. I've looked a year ago and there were probably a dozen listed on cars.com and today it is over 70.

You make a lot of good points. Being a long time Bimmer guy, I was contemplating getting a used M4, because they have depreciated more than I expected. It's probably because BMW has gone too mainstream with the M brand. It's not that rare of a car, and therefor not that special. A lot of enthusiasts rather buy an e46 or e90 M3, because they have bottomed out and are rising in value. Or look at the M2, much more limited and thus kept its value better also.

Not to get too far off track, but I agree 100% with you about race on Sunday sell on Monday. BMW has not been as active as they used to be during the 80's,90's & early 2000's in Motorsport, and it shows. The M3/4 is still an awesome car, as you well know, but it isn't the benchmark in sports sedans anymore. It used to be that the M3 was king in that segment, now the waters are pretty murky on that subject.

I'm sure there are many reasons the values on Porsche don't drop like those of BMW's or other brands. The biggest reason is that they are on top of their game making phenomenal cars. But to be fair, a lot of exotic cars have turned in to "investments" for wealthy people and I am sure that rubs off a little on them as well, as they just don't make enough cars to satisfy supply. Look at the 911R. That was pure speculation at first.

Last but not least, it looks to me like Porsche does raise the prices on a new model more than the rate of inflation. (I could be wrong) but what is the MSRP difference between a 991.1 and a 991.2 GT3? Seems like it is at least $20k in just a few years time. So that instantly helps the used ones from depreciating. And lets just assume they do the same thing with the 718 GT4's MSRP, and set it at ~$115k, compared to a similar optioned 981 that came in at ~$95k. That would certainly help the current GT4 keep its value for good. Not sure if that is Porsche genius or what, but it does work for those that have cars, and it sucks for those looking from the outside in, which is why I am done waiting and am going to get in. :-)