718 GT4?
#3316
Rennlist Member
maybe the Racecar stays 3.8l because base for homologation will stay 981 streetcar.
because 718/982 GT4 streetcars will become 16V turbo?
just guessing. and based on my hybrid posts a couple of pages back.
the based on the (true for everybody) tested 4cyl prototypes... (AP said it, imo vids show some 4cyl cars...)
because 718/982 GT4 streetcars will become 16V turbo?
just guessing. and based on my hybrid posts a couple of pages back.
the based on the (true for everybody) tested 4cyl prototypes... (AP said it, imo vids show some 4cyl cars...)
#3317
Rennlist Member
as long 2018 will be the worst year since 10? years for Porsche in terms of sales / economic numbers (sales/delivery problems and stops from sept till end of the year in EU)
just guessing.... in EU is just around 25% of the modelline order and deliver able. this should bear down the balance sheet....
regarding GT4 engine variants:
10.000+ legal streetcars are setting the agenda.
not the 150 racecars.
just guessing.... in EU is just around 25% of the modelline order and deliver able. this should bear down the balance sheet....
regarding GT4 engine variants:
10.000+ legal streetcars are setting the agenda.
not the 150 racecars.
#3318
They don't. They may have made a prototype (as they may have made many other one-off variations). A GT4 RS would likely use the GT3 engine and PDK-S (not a lesser 4.0).
One reason that they may have stayed with a 3.8L is that the GT4 Manual gearbox is already at its torque limit with the 3.8L. With a 4.0L, they would have needed to artificially limit the peak torque (in fact, they already did this with the last GT4 a bit: Only 310 ft-lbs vs. 325 ft-lbs in the 991.1 Carrera S). I believe this also happens to be the torque rating of the gearbox (420 Nm or 310 ft-lbs)
One reason that they may have stayed with a 3.8L is that the GT4 Manual gearbox is already at its torque limit with the 3.8L. With a 4.0L, they would have needed to artificially limit the peak torque (in fact, they already did this with the last GT4 a bit: Only 310 ft-lbs vs. 325 ft-lbs in the 991.1 Carrera S). I believe this also happens to be the torque rating of the gearbox (420 Nm or 310 ft-lbs)
Porsche marketing "Ever Ahead" hard to reconcile an engine that was dead and buried 3 or 4 years ago with the marketing and lack of performance that it offers.
Porsche is cognisant of the competition and would be well aware that a conventional 9A1 (and the X51 is a conventional 9A1) won't cut it in 2019.
Starting to look like a showbag - looks great on the outside but is in crap on the inside. Time for Porsche to step up to the plate and get it right.
I genuinely can't believe the GT division would stuff up again...........
In my locale the ratio of 981GT4 sales to 981GTS sales is 4.6 to 1.
Last edited by groundhog; 09-20-2018 at 10:12 AM.
#3319
Are you talking about the 9A1 as it's configured on the current street GT4? I think that for the price and being a Cayman...but more for the price....the overall performance was above average. Of course they could have gone X51 and/or 4.0L from the start but then you would end up with a +$100K Cayman as a base price. The GT4 if stays under $100K line hits a sweet spot IMO.
Also, on the CS, the GT4 class has evolved and the current GT4 CS being a pioneer of the class has been overwhelmed by the competition coming in with far superior vehicles from the start....some with base prices well above the GT4.
Lets wait and see what Porsche solution is for the street and race car.....but if I had to guess both will have the same engine.....we will probably get a 35-40 Hp boost (inline with Porsche evolution from model to model), mostly on the upper end, which for racing is OK.
Also, on the CS, the GT4 class has evolved and the current GT4 CS being a pioneer of the class has been overwhelmed by the competition coming in with far superior vehicles from the start....some with base prices well above the GT4.
Lets wait and see what Porsche solution is for the street and race car.....but if I had to guess both will have the same engine.....we will probably get a 35-40 Hp boost (inline with Porsche evolution from model to model), mostly on the upper end, which for racing is OK.
#3320
Nordschleife Master
Simon(the cleaning lady) says : 3.8 L NA.
Simon says : X51.
Simon says : 420 HP.
Simon says : redesigned manifold...still plastic,so don't get your hopes up.
Simon says : plastic oil pan-really dumb. Saves 1 pound from aluminum.
Simon says : improved tune,better torque curve.
Simon says : different(improved) calibration for steering and suspension.
Simon says : still lug bolts,no CL.
Simon says : reinforced gearbox to withstand more torque.
Simon says : 6 speed manual,with pdk being offered later in the production cycle.
Simon says : absolutely a very desirable car,everyone will want one!
Simon says : X51.
Simon says : 420 HP.
Simon says : redesigned manifold...still plastic,so don't get your hopes up.
Simon says : plastic oil pan-really dumb. Saves 1 pound from aluminum.
Simon says : improved tune,better torque curve.
Simon says : different(improved) calibration for steering and suspension.
Simon says : still lug bolts,no CL.
Simon says : reinforced gearbox to withstand more torque.
Simon says : 6 speed manual,with pdk being offered later in the production cycle.
Simon says : absolutely a very desirable car,everyone will want one!
#3321
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Just so they could improve the ECU tune in the midrange and give the maximum extra 15 ft-lbs (assuming particle filter doesn't absorb that anyway)? Seems strange...
#3324
Nordschleife Master
Originally Posted by GrantG
Since the 3.8L NA X51 motor makes the same amount of torque as the last GT4, why would they bother revising the manual gearbox (beyond returning to the original welded 3rd gears that did not break)?
Just so they could improve the ECU tune in the midrange and give the maximum extra 15 ft-lbs (assuming particle filter doesn't absorb that anyway)? Seems strange...
Just so they could improve the ECU tune in the midrange and give the maximum extra 15 ft-lbs (assuming particle filter doesn't absorb that anyway)? Seems strange...
#3325
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
#3326
Wonder how many thousands of these cars they will make. Offering pdk is confirmation that they're focused on selling a much larger number of cars. Porsche is being watered down in terms of exclusivity and rarity. Perhaps up help bail out VAG?
#3327
Nordschleife Master
Originally Posted by GrantG
OK, so basically just returning to the way they built the gearbox at the beginning of production (in 2015), not a re-design...
In terms of what they'll be doing with it internally,I don't think anyone knows...perhaps GTGears will know once he gets his hands on one. But bear in mind,I have read on Rennlist of a few failures even on 2015 production cars. Granted,I must have read about 3 or 4 if I'm not mistaking... A much lower number than 16 production cars. There's one that's just been posted,where they've replaced the transmission on a November 2015 production car because of gear whine,not because of a 3rd gear failure.
#3328
Three Wheelin'
@VLJ : Every brand is being watered down. Lamborghini makes the Urus, yuk. Ferrari announced 15 new models by 2022, one of them being a SUV, effectively doubling their production !
#3329
Three Wheelin'
Coming into Porsche as an old school BMW M owner, it was really hard to get more power out of the BMW na straight sixes. BMW made great engines and it felt like the engineers really delivered the best engines they could with each iiteration (equal length factory snake style headers on my euro m6!). Porsche makes great engines too but the blatant artificial detuning for product placement bugs me. On the plus side, they leave massive opportunities for more power on the table which I feel it is our responsibility as enthusiasts to take advantage of 981 GTS was just an S with a tune. 991.2 GT3rs' extra hp over the GT3 is just a tune. 981 GT4 was a detuned 400hp 991.1 S.
The 718 GT4 will be faster and better than the 981 GT4 no doubt but it will still be artificially handicapped by marketing and detuned from it's full potential. That's not to say it won't still be a good value (the 981 GT4 was a great value, detuned and all!) and I like the new styling so if I didnt already have a 981, the 718 GT4 would be an exciting option but I have a hard time imagining trading in a 981 to move to a 718. I'd rather spend my my $$$ unlocking the potential of the 981 and tuning it to my preferences beyond Porsche marketing's idea of what the GT4 should be than moving to a newer but still ultimately detuned 718.
That said, if Porsche took off the handcuffs and made a GT4rs with 520hp, 9k rpm, and a short geared close ratio manual, that would get me into the dealership with cash and smokes. Until then, I'm excited about the 718 GT4 to see if it brings any improvements that can be applied to the 981.
#3330