Son of Farquhar

Hi all,

So today I was doing my daily 911 internet hunt, when I couldn't help but notice the falling prices of the 93-95 Rx-7's; and not an 80K mile thrasher, either. I mean, a one owner 94 with 34K for $12.5K?? A 95 with 44K for $14K??

What's the scoop with these TT rotaries? Is their reliability reputation unfounded? I had an 85 back in the day that was a gem. It seems I here someone talk of an 70K mile example on its 3rd motor, then I hear of someone with a 120K mile one going strong on its original engine. I suspect modification plays a major factor.
It'd be great to get any input from those who have owned one or know someone who has; I'd love to hear some owner experiences.

I'm bored at work (again), it's raining (again), and getting very restless in my hunt for a clean 78-83 SC (I know it's just around the corner)- a quick summer romp with twin turbo power might be the thing to lift my spirits. I know looking at them sure does!

Regards all,
Paul

RWHP

They are an owners nightmare.

Motors blow at 30k, and it gets progresivly worse from there.

SamGrant951

its all about tuning. you have to have the air/fuel ratio nailed perfectly. ive heard as long as they are maintained well and really cared for they are great cars. but then you have the owners that crank the boost or throw on bolt on parts w/o tuning. thats when it gets ugly...

adsc4s

The rotary motor itself is a gem. If it is well taken care of, it is a very reliable and fast car. Hard to imagine getting all that hp and torque out of a 1.3 litre.

DaveK

Hi,
I nearly bought one privately about 5 years ago. It seemed like a lovely car - excellent condition. Then I phoned a Mazda dealer to see what they thought. They told me they were fantastic - except they blew up every 30K miles.

Son of Farquhar

Thanks, all , for the comments.
Sam- That's what I heard as well. It all comes down to the tuning; the addition of just a non OE exhaust requires a "re-map" of the computer. Of course you can go without it, but you tempt pinging in the process, and if I'm not mistaken; 1 ping and your out!
The owners I've encountered with high mileage examples are mostly owners of unmodified (except for the "reliability" upgrades), well taken care of models.
I wonder if it's the kids running 400+hp (relatively easy, if I'm not mistaken) that give these cars bad raps (I know in the early days of this model, it was the dealer's lack of proper training that tarnished it's rep early on)

Dave-From lurking on the RX-7 boards, I've generally heard at all costs "stay away from the dealer". 7 owners are fanatical about this (of course, I'm sure exceptions are present)

All I know is that I think the lines are gorgeous, and it seems to be ageing well for a 10 year design.

I recall sometime ago a person on this board who has one (and a 993 if I'm not mistaken). I tried a search but had no luck. I would love to get his thoughts.

Finally, a rainless day at work!

...now if I could cure this boredom!

Best,
Paul

pig4bill

Is that really a good price? 300zx twin-turbos have been in that price range for years.

DaveK

Paul,
Check out the "Avatar Test -- Ignore" thread from ApexL8 about half way down the Off Topic board. He is listing an RX7 and a 993 in his signature.

ApexL8

Paul,
Hey, thanks for the PM, I've owned a 3rd Gen RX for about 7 years now, and I don't mind sharing my opinions on them. First of all I don't think I would buy another one. When they are running right they are a joy to drive, but it seems like they rarely run right.

I bought the car with around 30k miles on it, and I took that engine to over 80k in stock form, until it started burning oil, which is the first sign of worn rotor seals.

I decided to take the car to Peter Farrell do some mild performance upgrades along with the new engine (rebuilt factory unit from Mazda); intake, exhaust, intercooler, computer, to take the car to about 360-370 HP, plus a racing radiator to make it run cooler. It worked out badly, Farrell must have gotten a bad batch of engines from Japan, it took me three trips from Atlanta to DC, and 3 engine swaps before I got one that didn't smoke like hell. Plus, he swapped out the turbochargers (at cost) at one point suspecting them as the problem. Not the experience I expected from a so-called premiere RX tuner.

The final engine only made it to about 15k miles with a couple of DEs on it, but mainly run easily.

Now I'm on my 3rd engine (if you don't count those two that I only had for a few weeks), from Pettit Racing, all new rotors and housings, dowel pins, ceramic seals, and it is only just broken in.

So, longevity has been an issue for me, even with a mildly boosted setup. I've heard stories of bone stock motors, in new cars from the factory only lasting 30k miles, but these may have been badly abused. Best case scenario for an unmodified 3rd Gen is maybe 80-90k miles. The engine compartment is more cramped than in the 2nd Gens, almost everyone agrees the resulting heat buildup is the main factor why they don't last as long.

Other comments:
YES, if you mess with the intake and exhaust the car will run too lean, a piggyback computer like Farrell's, or a standalone programmable computer is required, or the motor will overheat/grenade.

KNOCK/PING, You get maybe one free one, then the motor grenades, thats why they are tuned to run so rich. The stock rotor seals are a very hard material, but brittle, they cannot handle detonation like a piston ring can.

PRICES?, I bought my '93 in '95 and it had already dropped from near $40k to just over $20k, or should I say plummeted? I've been watching eBay, I'm going to sell the car.

One of the reasons I bought my 993 was their good reputation for reliability, I'm tired of working on the car all weekend trying to make the next session at a DE, I'd rather just check the oil and air, and tweak rather than maintain.

My past experiences were confirmed last weekend at Barber with the Alabama PCA. I saw four 3rd Gens, one went out (fuel?), two required constant fiddling, the fourth ran well, but it was essentially stock.

Running my 993 at Barber convinced me to sell the RX, it was just easier to drive (PSS-9, RS swaybars) more stable, not skittish. I had entertained the thought of making the RX into a track only car, but after driving the Porsche what's the point?

If you end up with a 3rd Gen and just concentrate on reliability mods you may end up with a car you like. It's too easy to fall into the mindset of looking for more horsepower, mine can pull away from Corvettes with no problem, fun, but at what cost?

I apologize for the long post, here's my $0.02:
If you want to make a street monster that can pull away from everything (you'll probably encounter) except a Viper the cheapest avenue is through a 3rd Gen RX-7.
If you want a more well balanced sports car get a 993, or that SC you've been wanting, street, track, it loves both of them, just doesn't have that blistering acceleration.
If you want a tourer/cruiser get that 300ZX mentioned above (I owned one of them too).

Cheers, and Good Hunting,

Son of Farquhar

Hi Chuck,
Thanks for the info! Your comments pretty much reflect most of the comments I've heard.
When I started this post, I was bummed about my current 911 search and just happend to encounter an FD on the highway (and I just love the way they look), so of course the wheels started turning...
As for the 300Zx, they're great cars-in fact I wanted one bad awile back, but I have had a chance to get some seat time in my father's 96, and thing is just too big for me- but a great cruiser nontheless.

Now it seems I just might have found that elusive SC, so much that I think I may be time to order up a PPI. We'll see how it goes.

One more thing, Chuck; if your ready to sell, may I suggest posting an ad on rx7club.com? Might be useful in case ebay doesn't work out, as the cars on there seem to move quickly.

Thaks everyone again,
Paul

ApexL8

Paul,
Good luck finding the right car for yourself, it sounds like you have a pretty short list of models you are considering and that helps a lot with the hunting.

The FD is a pretty good looking car, it still turns a few heads even after all these years, I hope it finds a good home:
<img src="http://www.mindspring.com/~cinque/PersonalPix/Rx01.jpg" alt=" - " />

Thanks for the hint about rx7club.com, I'll check it out. My RX will be for sale soon, but I'm in no real hurry, I just can't justify having 2 sports cars, even if one (sort of) has a back seat <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> .

Randall G.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by ApexL8:
<strong>***snip***

Best case scenario for an unmodified 3rd Gen is maybe 80-90k miles.

***snip***</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Yup, a coworker bought a '93 Rx-7 new (to replace a 911 SC <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> ), her unmodified engine blew at 80k miles. The new engine caught fire a month after being installed (they were able to salvage the engine). She has since replaced the car with a Boxster S.

A few years ago, I really wanted to steer my wife towards a 3rd generation Rx-7 when she was looking for a sporty car. Spent some time researching, and found (as others have already chipped in) that some 30-50% of the cars on Autotrader, etc., have new or recently rebuilt engines. Also spent some time monitoring the Rx-7 message boards. For example, there was the guy who asked his mechanic how to make his new engine last, and was told to just enjoy the car and expect to replace the engine every 4-5 years.

As much as I wanted that Rx-7, we/she wound up buying a '96 Miata. Good decision. In 3.5 years of ownership, it has required scheduled maintenance and zero repairs, outside of a new rear window.

W88951

I think the biggest mistake mazda made was introducing the twin turbo RX-7. They had the 20B 3 Rotor in the works for the 3rd gen, but did not produce it because of the cost. The twin turbo was cheaper.

If they had done the 3 rotor, the car would have produced the same or more power, and lasted forever. The engine in my 2nd gen RX-7 lasted to 276k miles. I am sure it would have gone longer if I was not the driver.

I have driven the 3rd gen RX-7's, and they are a blast, but I would be concerned about reliablity problems. My 2 cents is buy a 951!!

CN

I had a 2nd Gen. RX7 GX. Great car, lots of fun. I bought it new in 1987 when I was 24 and got my first real job. I was in love with 944's but couldn't afford one so I settled. I got 248,000 kms (150,000 miles)out of it before I got cut off by a drunk and smashed it into a concrete pole at about 85kmph (52 mph). The engine ended up in the passenger seat and my neck, shoulder and collar bone were busted. It had started drinking lots of oil at about 150,000 kms (95,000 miles). I also had problems with the cats until I punched holes in them. RX7's had 3 Cats at the time and I wasn't buying them at $1500 buck each. My friend got the 3rd gen RX7 and it literally burned up. That's right, it spontaneously combusted for no apparent reason.

IMHO they are great for the first 100,000 miles, then get rid of it fast. After that they are really big trouble.

twinturbo928

A guy I work with has a RX-7 NA on which the oil pressure went south.

He is now putting a 350 V-8 into it.

I would go with a 944 turbo, the motors are very strong!